Brandone Francis commits to Florida

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by REM08, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    In Francis' case, the supposed age advantage is mitigated to a great degree by the year+ he lost to a couple of injuries and by the fact that he is new to the country and to US hoops, which is an entirely different animal than what he grew up playing in the D.R. in terms of competitiveness, quality of talent, year round games, etc. He apparently was a pretty good baseball player there, so he likely spent far more time on the ball field than he did in a gym.

    I think you also have to look at what skills he has versus where he can improve. The guy is a first rate passer with a great feel for the game. That isn't something that necessarily comes from being bigger or stronger than someone else. His biggest weakness is his shot, which likewise takes little advantage from being bigger or stronger than the competition. He definitely has room for improvement, but in my opinion his strengths would be there no matter the relation of his age to his opponents. Physical post players would be a different story. Same for power guards.
  2. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough.
  3. InstiGATOR1
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    InstiGATOR1 Active Member

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    Well, by "bigs" I mean "bigs" guys that can play the 4/5. As for your comments:

    1. Name me the last 3/4, really the first 3/4, Donovan has ever had. You have talked combo forwards with several recruits the last few years, but I can not remember a single such player

    2. Maybe Black is 6'8" now and could be an undersized 5, but more likely still a 4. If you sign a couple a 6'9"+ guys then you have the 4 and 5 covered. If you sign a couple of 6'7" guys who are post players, you have two 4s. [Black is in the draftexpress.com data base at 6'7" with shoes on meaning he could have been 6'5.75" at that measurement.]

    3. Still I did not fully express my view. If UF were to get Black and Abu, that would be great as long as UF got a 5 prospect too. Of course UF, if UF' staff wants a couple of 4s and thinks with Hayes set for 2015, they are ok with just 4s in this class, then I have to go with them.
  4. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Parsons?
  5. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Brent Wright, Parsons, Werner, Mitchell, Adam Allen (could play three positions), Tyus (coming in), Yeguete (played the three as a freshman), Prather, DaVon Walker,there are are plenty of them.

    Black's inability to play the five has nothing to do with his height, but his game. He really isn't a rim protector or a great rebounder, nor is he a post presence. He is at his best facing the basket or in the pick and roll action or in transition. He can also shoot a little. Abu (that's who I meant is 6'8" now, not Black) would be more than fine at the five in our system. He is two inches taller than Yeguete was at this stage with about the same skill set, the same height as Haslem, the same height as Richard, and only an inch shorter than Horford. He is a monster rebounding the ball and playing physically around the basket. Abu would be more than fine at the five because he has sufficient size, but the game to boot.


    And I would say you need to look at it in two-class increments, not one. While I would prefer Price-Martin to go along with Black and Abu, as long as we sign someone who is ready to play in 2015 (in addition to Hayes), then we are fine because Abu can play the five very well in our system.
  6. InstiGATOR1
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    InstiGATOR1 Active Member

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    1. So the answer is no one as I said. You mentioned no one who actually played both at UF at the same point in their careers because there isn't anyone. Dan Werner a 3 pressed into playing a 4 when UF was stuck playing the 6'6.5" without shoes Tyus at the 5 is the closest to a 3/4 at UF and he had to bulk up too much to play the 4 to remain a 3.

    2. Now is Black, "a monster on the glass like Yeguete" or "isn't ... a great rebounder" or has your opinion changed during this thread?

    3. The reason people think UF needs a real big in the 2014 class is they are thinking in terms of roster. You really must not think in terms of recruits at all, but roster. They look at UF's roster and potential fives. They see Harris, Young and C.Walker who they expect to be gone after 2013-14 for Young, 2014-15 for Harris and probably 2014-15 at the latest for C.Walker. So do you want the raw Hayes coming in and having to start in 2015-16, most don't. They prefer a five prospect in 2014 class. That of course could change if there is a late addition five type to the 2013 class.
  7. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 Well-Known Member

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    We played for the national title in 2000 with a 6' 7" center backed up by another 6' 7" center. If I recall correctly, our 6' 7" ceneter was the dominant player in that national title game.
  8. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    It is pretty simple Black's game is below the rim we will struggle if he is our 5 for long periods of time in a game.
  9. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    He clearly meant to say Abu was a monster on the glass.
  10. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Who is talking about Black at the five? No one is. Abu, yes, but not Black.
  11. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Parsons started out at the four, then played the three for the remainder of his career. Wright started out at the three, then played the four the rest of his tenure. Prather has split time at both forward spots, as has Walker in his limited play. Werner and Mitchell were both guys we recruited because of their versatility in either extending the floor from the four or giving us a bigger option at the three. Allen and Tyus were essentially prep wings who outgrew their positions.

    At any rate, there are numerous examples of players with the versatility to contribute at either forward spot, some of whom actually did. Either you didn't read my response or you don't watch Florida basketball very closely.

    I misspoke in the first post, which I subsequently corrected in the second. Did you not read that part, either? Abu is a phenomenal rebounder, Black is not. I suspect anyone who follows recruiting would know that.

    That's one of the reasons I want us to take Price-Martin. But Abu and Black are both much better, more developed players on the whole and they can contribute immediately. Price-Martin is more of a project. Plus, is he legitimately a better prospect at the five because he has one whole inch on Abu?
  12. InstiGATOR1
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    InstiGATOR1 Active Member

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    Unfortunately for your post, draftexpress.com has everyone you mention in their measurement data base:

    1. Leron or LeRon Black was measure in 2012 and 2013 and both times is reported to have measured 6'7" in shoes. That means he is about 6'5.75" or 6'6" tall, maybe even 6'5.5" tall.

    2. Haslem measured 6'7.75" without shoes so with that about 1" to 1.25" for shoes is why UF listed him at 6'9" That makes him 2 inches taller than Black. [The data base mistakenly listed that 6'7.75" as both without shoes and shoes, but given what he has always been listed as it had to be without shoes.]

    3. Harvey measured 6'7.25" without shoes UF listed him as 6'8" ie his height with shoes rounded to a whole inch.

    4. Wright measured 6'7.75" without shoes and he to was listed at 6'9" tall by UF.

    5. Bonner measured 6'8.5" without shoes and 6'10" tall with shoes. UF listed him at 6'9" tall and 6'10" tall.

    6. UF lost the game it and it did not come down to a final shot or two. So while Haslem was clearly UF's best player it is not like he was the MOP of the final four while playing for a runner up team. I have been right about some things about UF basketball and wrong about others, but I knew Haslem was an NBA prospect and was worthy an NBA pick if Elton Brand was worthy the number 1 pick.

    The bottom line here is UF was not as small as you suggested in 2000. So while Black may grow and that would be great if he comes to UF and ends up more the size of a college post player.
  13. InstiGATOR1
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    InstiGATOR1 Active Member

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    Then we are in agreement about what UF needs in this class. [BTW, Price-Martin is in the draft express.com database too. He is 6'9.5" in shoes meaning he is about 2.5" taller than Black. Abu is not yet in that data base.] Recruiting is of course about projecting as you say. A 6'7" great high school player even against AAU competition projects differently than a 6'9.5" high school player even who is not a polished.

    As for 3/4s, maybe UF will get such a player some day. But the Donovan era hasn't had someone who played both yet. So we can agree to disagree on that.
  14. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, pardon me. We played for the national title in 2000 with 2 centers taller than 6' 7" but shorter than 6' 8." Haslem scored 27 points in the title game on 10 for 12 shooting, and was named the Chevrolet Player of the Game
  15. InstiGATOR1
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    InstiGATOR1 Active Member

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    UF in 2000 had two centers who were about 6'9" and 6'8" tall with shoes, while Black has been measured twice as 6'7" tall with shoes. Remember you were the one chiming in this discussion of Black that UF played for the NCAA tourney title with two centers guys the same size as Black. You were wrong.

    Now certainly these measurements were all made by different people at different events so there could be some inconsistency. Still they are the best we have.
  16. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 Well-Known Member

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    Do me a favor and don't misstate me. I said that UF played for the national title with 2 6' 7" centers. That statement was correct. You astutely pointed out that basketball players wear sneakers.
  17. NorthCaptivaGator
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    NorthCaptivaGator Well-Known Member

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    When you have to start talking about a players height with and without shoes you are really grasping to prove a point

    Plus - Brewer played as a 3/4 on occasion as does Prather, hell even Beal played a little as a 4 when WY was out

    My definition of a 3/4 is a guy who can play either position, both on offense and defense or in combination when pressed to do so, what is yours?
  18. Brewski
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    Brewski Well-Known Member

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    That made me chuckle at work. Well worded and thanks for the smile.
  19. DoctorGator
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    DoctorGator Well-Known Member

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    Haslem is not over 6'-6" without shoes - probably not that tall. A testament to his bball IQ and hustle.

    His backup in 2000 had a wingspan of a man about 7'-2".
  20. InstiGATOR1
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    Yeah don't let the facts in the draftexpress.com pre-drat measurement data base along with what every team has listed him as get in your way. Just go blindly on, if you wish.

    Draftexpress.com pre-draft measurement data base:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Udonis-Haslem-2754/stats/

    Miami Heat:

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/udonis_haslem/index.html?nav=page

    UF:

    http://www.gatorzone.com/basketball/men/bios.php?year=2001&bio=haslem.html

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