Boehner: Pass Romney platform or the puppy gets it

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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  2. fastsix

    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    They think they're doing something by stopping anyone from doing anything.
  3. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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    Check the article: they propose everything Romney did when he got his a.s beat as their demands for raising the debt limit.
  4. MichiGator2002

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    The mindset behind this article may actually be even more poisonous and corrosive to the hopes this country has to endure than the liberalism we are supposedly on the same side against.
  5. phatGator

    phatGator Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that what happened under W?
  6. DieAGator

    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    Your President has a lot of room to talk. Why don't you just accept your President might be wrong. The American people believe so and eventually most of his supporters will as well.
  7. fastsix

    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    The American people were so against Obamacare that they elected Obama again?
  8. fastsix

    fastsix Well-Known Member

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  9. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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  10. GatorBen

    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    If that's really what they're planning to play chicken with default for, it might be time for Obama to pull the big gun out in the debt limit fight.

    Declare the executive's belief that the statutory debt limit is unconstitutional as applied in the circumstances when it conflicts with prior spending authorizations, and decline to follow it in the absence of a final court finding of validity. (aka direct the treasury to issue debt anyways).
  11. orangeblueorangeblue

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is news, this has always been a bargaining table and the Pubs have had a Christmas list for some time now, primarily things blocked in the Senate the last few years.
  12. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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    Has this idea been fleshed out? It would seem to meet that bills the government has already accumulated should be paid by the executive branch as a matter of course, no further deliberations or authority required.
  13. GatorBen

    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    It got floated some the last time we had a debt limit issue.

    It largely was based on Section 4 of the 14th Amendment: "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

    Essentially the argument is that it is unconstitutional for the federal government to default on its debt, so to the degree that the statutory debt ceiling would result in a default it is unconstitutional as applied.

    The perhaps more interesting issue? It's not real clear that anyone would have standing to challenge the President in court if he took this interpretation...

    The only Supreme Court case addressing the public debt clause that I am aware of is the plurality opinion in Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935).

    It doesn't really address this issue, but does contain a few points that could arguably support it:

    "While this provision was undoubtedly inspired by the desire to put beyond question the obligations of the government issued during the Civil War, its language indicates a broader connotation. We regard it as confirmatory of a fundamental principle which applies as well to the government bonds in question, and to others duly authorized by the Congress, as to those issued before the amendment was adopted. Nor can we perceive any reason for not considering the expression ‘the validity of the public debt’ as embracing whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations."

    It also raises the question of whether a default would potentially also violate the Public Credit Clause of Article I: "The Constitution gives to the Congress the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States . . . The binding quality of the promise of the United States is of the essence of the credit which is so pledged. Having this power to authorize the issue of definite obligations for the payment of money borrowed, the Congress has not been vested with authority to alter to destroy those obligations."

    You basically wind up making the argument that Article I doesn't provide enumerated authority for Congress to cause a default, and Section 4 of the 14th Amendment bars default, so to the degree that the statutory debt limit as applied would result in a default it would be unconstitutional.

    It certainly would be treading new legal ground and there's not much in the way of authority either way on how those clauses should be interpreted in that situation, but it's also not entirely clear that anyone could get into court to challenge it if the President took that path - essentially meaning that the remedy, if Congress disagreed with the assertion, would have to be a political one.
  14. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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    Well, knowing how unhinged the republican party has become it's not news, but actually the specifics are.
  15. Row6

    Row6 New Member

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    Do it! I don't care what party has the presidency.

    Thanks for that research, or did you just rip that off out of memory?
  16. GatorBen

    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Remembered the basic arguments from 2011 when Geithner suggested that the Treasury could perhaps have the authority to issue debt necessary to avoid default even without Congress raising the debt limit. Obviously had to go track down the citation to and quotes from Perry again though, I'm not good enough to remember that level of detail. :laugh:
  17. DaveFla

    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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  18. PSGator66

    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    In saying that the people were so against Obamacare that they re-elected Obama has to be the most laughable statement I have read on TH!! Half of his voters are illiteratre and the other half don't speak English. The best part about Obamacare is that those who are clueless will suffer the most.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2013
  19. g8orbill

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    hell let the dems in the senate and prezBO have it-then see who is whining when we are in the toilet in a few years
  20. fredsanford

    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Noted without comment.

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