Bill O'Reilly on President Obama and Race. Does Anyone Disagree?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatordpm, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    they're just replicating the lives they're surrounded with, with what they grew up around. that's what most of us do.
    grow up in a home where people work, take care of themselves and treat others with love and respect .... that's what you're most likely to do.
    grow up in a home where your father beats your mother, you're more likely to do that.
    grow up in a home without a father, where few in the neighborhood have fathers in their lives ... that becomes the natural thing for you.
  2. OklahomaGator
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    It is not just young unmarried mothers who are incentivized to have more children. Senior citizens who are widowed lose social security dollars if they remarry. Two young adults pay higher taxes if they are married and combine their income than if they stay single but live together.

    The laws need to be changed to incentivize the behavior society needs to have a prosperous nation.

    1. Eliminate the marriage penalty. (this has happened to some degree but not entirely)
    2. Change the social security benefits so that seniors who marry do not lose benefits.
    3. Change the benefits for unwed mothers with dependents by limiting them to 2 children or some number. Maybe set up nutrition centers where the additional children can be fed but no additional dollars go to the mother unless she marries.
  3. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    link
  4. baygator1
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    baygator1 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Doing the same thing, but expecting a different result.

    It takes some individual initiative to actually do something different. Unfortunately, the voices that tend to speak the most and the loudest for these communities have programmed the communities to believe they don't need to do anything differently because it's up to other people to produce different outcomes for them.

    You can't help but wonder how much further ahead some of these communities would be today, in all the reasonable and logical ways we'd measure it, if the voices had been different.
  5. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure their personal decisions are as conscious as deciding other people need to take care of them. I don't think there's much thought at all.
    Also keep in mind that what's going on is not unique to African-Americans. It just happens more often there.
  6. baygator1
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    baygator1 Well-Known Member

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    Note: my post said 'communities'. Not black communities, not white communities, not hispanic communities.

    If people really want different outcomes for themselves, and for their communities, they have to work for it and make some personal investment. Pimpin ain't easy, and neither is changing decades of avoiding problems and solutions.
  7. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    The state already pays for them.

    We've been heading towards a demographic and economic train wreck because of it. The folks that we should want to have extra kids cannot, because they cannot afford it. I'm talking middle class here.

    Yet the poor, whose offspring have the least likely chance at success, are able to afford as many kids as they want. In fact they make money off of them.

    It's a vicious cycle that needs to reverse if this country wants to prosper.

    I'm not sure what the answer is. My solution would be far less monetary subsidies/incentives for the poor to have children and far more prosecutions for child abuse/neglect.

    This will remove the incentives from the folks that are not willing to make the extreme sacrifices adults of limited means would have to make versus those adults that are willing to make those sacrifices.

    But at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Why should I have to pay for your kids?
  8. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    Great post.

    I don't think it has much to do with morals. It takes pretty special people to sacrifice 50% or more of their income just to say they are married in the eyes of the state. These people can actually still be married privately, they can wear rings, etc. At the end of the day is it worth giving up that much money just so Uncle Sam can say you are married? Who cares what Uncle Sam says?

    Now of course there is another issue of couples breaking up, causing true single parents.

    However, my first paragraph gives me hope. The strongest most prosperous nations are ones that are motivated by money. Faith and family are great, but that doesn't create great prosperous countries. A populace that is focused on achievement and acquiring as much money is.

    Now while being hooked on Uncle Sam isn't acquiring that money in a productive sense, but does show financial motivation. The problem is simply incentives. For many in order to trump Uncle Sam it would require doing well in HS and going to college. That is hard in those circles. And even still it may not work. They are making the rationale choice to live off Uncle Sam. That's promising. Id predict if we pulled out Uncle Sam those folks would then use that same motivation but in a productive sense. They want to maximize their wealth and at that point they'd have to work and go to school.

    That's what we have to understand. The poor in this country are making the rationale decision to live off Uncle Sam and have extra children. We need to incentivize it so the rationale decision is to work harder, go to school, and have less children.

    I'm fully confident that by and large they'd continue to make the right choice, we just have to change the system to benefit the country/economy.
  9. gator7_5
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    Anyone on welfare should have to come into the local clinic for a birth control shot. These adults are more like young children. They need to be treated as such. The drain on our economy needs to stop.
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  10. squigator
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    squigator Premium Member

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    After two I think forced sterilization is in order - for the male and the female. Otherwise they don't get the second check.
  11. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta

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    Stop having children you can't afford then.
  12. Bushmaster
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    The idea behind a social safety net is to get off it if you ever land on it, not set up house.

    I would give every 14 year old girl or guy a birth control shot to be removed only when it is shown they can support a child. My guess is when the unwed mothers and fathers find out there are no bennies to be had for having a bunch of kids, the carefree attitude will change and so will the behavior.
  13. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to pay for my kids because I don't have any, and if I did I have plenty of my own money. If anything I'm paying for other people's kids through my taxes from which a huge portion is used for public education.

    I wish there was some way to stop people who can't afford kids from having them, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon in America. Right wingers see some big liberal conspiracy in this, but it has more to do with our culture. Many of the same people arguing we shouldn't be paying for other people's children are the same people arguing against the govt. providing birth control or allowing abortions...and they don't see the irony in that.
  14. QGator2414
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    While I agree I don't see the slowing of people having kids irresponsibly happening anytime soon. The problem lies with the government enabling and inserting itself into an issue it has no business being involved in.

    Start requiring the mother and father of a child born on Medicaid to perform 100 hous of community service by the child's first birthday (then start removing all the child tax credits, WIC, etc they may use if they do not adhere to the community service). Teach some responsibility while helping people...

    The birth control thing is joke as it is obtainable at minimal to no cost without government. Killing an innocent life is not an acceptable way to teach responsibility IMO...

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