Big Bang theory skeptics outnumber believers in US

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by busigator96, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Nope, we I do not think that we have seen it happen in the last 1,000 years or so. And neither had we seen a woman simultaneously enter the winning lottery numbers for two states, but to the wrong states, until a few years ago. Nor had we seen a black president or a phone that can take pictures. Does it mean that those things are impossible too?
  2. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Hehe, reading Bertrand Russell had the net effect of strengthening my Christian faith. I remember thinking, "Well, if this is the best that atheists can muster ...".
  3. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    And you are likely wrong in the amount of reading I've done both in primary reading by evolutionary scientists and from the ID side.

    I found "The Blind Watchmaker" by Dawkins especially fascinating because in one of his computer experimental examples of the process of evolution, he actually introduced an intelligent agent to guide the process, apparently without realizing the contradiction between random and directed processes.

    Much of what passes as fact in evolutionary theories are really just guesses and stories, starting with Darwin's finches.
  4. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    Religion needs no proof for validation, so it can't actually be beat by reason, logic, or just basic common sense. Sad that people have to fight and kill over who's imaginary, made up figure is better. Big Bang Theory I can understand being skeptical. Not evolution though. You are just reaching for straws to hold on to your blind, unguided faith at that point.
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  5. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    Please provide your best evidence for evolution, besides simply we're here so it must have happened.

    I picked on the finches because they were advanced as evidence for the single-cell organism to us evolutionary process when variation of beak size is simply evidence for variation within the genetic code of single species. No new features were created and the finches remained finches. You have to make ENORMOUS leaps of faith for that to represent evidence for evolution that can create new animals.

    And one of the key features of evolution as imagined by Darwin was that acquired characteristics could be passed to offspring. We now know that to be untrue and that only genetic characteristics may be inherited.

    That ultimately means that the remarkable power of the creation of life that increases in complexity and variety and constructs incredibly complex features and creatures is left to pure random mutation.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  6. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    Now if all these events you've brought up were predicted to happen exactly when & how they did 100 years before they actually occurred, then we would have some odds that you could actually compare.
  7. umcpgator
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    umcpgator Well-Known Member

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    You don't really have to make leaps of faith for new species to be created. Look at your ligers, tigons, denisovans, etc.
  8. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    It they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, they are still the same species. I'm talking about how do you get from bacteria to you? Somewhere along the line you have to make much bigger leaps, and lots of them, than cats reproducing cats or humans reproducing humans.
  9. umcpgator
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    umcpgator Well-Known Member

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    You may want to look at how you define species. Even the biologists can't sort it out. According to your quote, lion, tigers, ligers, and tigons are the same species.
  10. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    The Darwin's finches argument to demote the likeliness of evolution? I don't know what Biology teacher you had at UF, but he did a very poor job if you can honestly think you can use sound proof of natural selection and adaptation by a species as a form of disproving evolution....The finches evolved from a common structure to developing unique characteristics based on their need to survive. Therefore, in due time you can conclude, reasonably I might add, that a continued evolution will occur if necessary for the survival of the finches, eventually molding them into something far different from the common structure they once held.

    Seriously...you just used natural selection as an argument against evolution. Think about how crazy that sounds. Finches were only used to show species grow in separate ways based on their surroundings to survive and pro create. It's not a leap of faith, it's common sense. Something almost every academic of a high standing will back. At some point, shouldn't we just sit and listen to the most intelligent people in the World? I mean I am not in that group, but I doubt you are either.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  11. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    And that doesn't even consider the vast multitude of different species of plant life that we're surrounded by. Without which this planet couldn't survive. Pretty amazing how it all just "happens" to work out.
  12. reformedgator
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    reformedgator Premium Member

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    All in the cat family, which would allow for the possibility of another species of cat. At the end of the day, they're still cats.
  13. gatorjeff20017
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    gatorjeff20017 Active Member

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    Read the gene mapping in the Human Genome Project text. It's clear that our genome is built on a long string of lesser creatures. It clearly shows we started in the water, went to land, back to water, and finally land........just as Darwin theorized. The first 98% is that of a chimp, complete with wacky gene skipping through natural selection as the various species are altered. The is no chance that evolution didn't occur. Zero.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2014
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Really not that simple. Felidae is a family, not a species. There are animals that cross-breed even higher up the chain at suborder. Yet unlike cats, none of the members of the hominid family can cross-breed. Some equus can crossbreed, others cannot.
  15. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, a lot of evolutionary theory isn't based in experiments, but I wouldn't necessarily say that "guess" is the right word for it either. In the climate debates, the type of information is a bit different, so I understand your skepticism to a degree. Here, I don't get it at all. These are theories that are agreed upon by EVERYBODY, guess in your view or not, and they have been around for years. Sure, we haven't watched a whale evolve from a land animal, but we've only been watching for a couple hundred years. How could we see that happen in that time?
  16. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    What does someone predicting a black president have to do with knowing the odds? Anyway, I agree that we don't have odds that we can compare. That's my point.

    We haven't seen life evolve recently, so we have zero idea about what the odds are from an empirical standpoint. Something that should occur once in 1,000 years, 10,000 years, 100,000 years, or a billion years wouldn't have occurred in recorded history, so how do you, reformedgator, know the difference between them?
  17. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    You have this backwards. It was Darwin that corrected Lamarck's theory of inheritance of acquired characteristics. This was, in fact, his biggest contribution to biology, describing how populations evolve without individuals ever changing.

    However, today, we have an idea that inheritance of acquired characters may not be so crazy, as we have learned from the new science of epigenetics.

    And maybe epigenetics. :)
  18. richmondgator81
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    richmondgator81 Well-Known Member

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    No argument there. What baffles me is that you turn up your nose at Russell but then swallow the Bible hook, line and sinker as if it offers a more compelling alternative.
  19. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that you'd know what it entails to swallow the Bible hook, line and sinker. Most Bible-skeptics read the Bible like fundamentalists, the better to reject it.

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