Best UF Players by Position in the Donovan Era

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by eViLG, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    The 08 team was certainly bad defensively, and I'm sure that Green would have been a better defender on that team than Calathes. That said, I think that you aren't giving Calathes his due. These are the other super talented players from the 08 team in descending order of offensive usage rate: Speights, Hodge, Werner. Yes, Werner was a top 4 contributor on that team. I mean, Jai Lucas played 30 min/game on that team.

    In the meantime, Calathes was assaulting UF record books. Had he stayed for 4 years and simply maintained his first freshman/sophomore production, this would be his insane statistical resume:

    Statistic.......Total.......4 year projected........Projected rank
    Points...............1170................2340.................................1
    Rebounds.........379...................758..............................Top 25, I think
    Assists..............452...................904...................................1 (by 300!)
    Steals................126..................252....................................1
    3PT made.........131..................262...................................T5
    FT made...........279..................558...................................1

    You can argue that Dan Werner was a great player if you want, but I don't see why we need to discount the performance of a guy with this kind of production. It's incredible.
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  2. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Erik Murphy would certainly be on any "Honorable Mention" team--his last few years at Florida were superb. Not many 6'10 guys can shoot the 3 like that and it greatly stretched all of our opponents. I may be remembering this wrong, but I distinctly remember announcers repeatedly saying that Murphy was consistently the hardest player to scheme against due to hie height and shooting range. Not only could he shoot the 3, he was pretty good under the basket and on medium-length jumpers too.

    That ability--and the ability to play the 3, 4, and even 5 by his junior and senior years make him certainly deserving of a mention on the list. Unfortunately for him, that versatility means he's up against some pretty strong Gator greats at the 3 and 4.
  3. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Murph was such a big part of our offensive success last year. This is another example of why I think Frazier is so important for us. He's been shut down recently, and we really need to figure out a way to get him open.
  4. eViLG
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    eViLG Active Member

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    Anyone arguing that Dan Werner was a "great" college basketball player should have their head examined by a board certified neurologist.
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  5. TampaGatorFan
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    TampaGatorFan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he was a stone cold assassin from downtown.
  6. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    This is what I'm talking about. Thanks for illustrating it. It's no disrespect to Green to say Calathes was better.

    I won't argue with someone's opinion that Green fit the championship teams better than Calathes would have because we have no way of knowing. I do think it would be interesting to see Calathes play with them though. I think his scoring would have been down but his assists even higher as Noah, Horford and Hump all were much better finishers than Calathes had around him.
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  7. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 VIP Member

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    We went to 2 NITs with Nick at the point. The year after Nick left, Erving Walker carried a horrendous Gator team to the NCAA tournament.
  8. RodanX
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    RodanX Premium Member

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    Calathes' style always drove me crazy (shot in the paint = block, no defense) but he was a great facilitator no doubt. I can't really disagree with the lists in the original post except perhaps putting JHam in the top 3 instead of honorable mention and having Beal #1.

    What really stands out is how amazing the 06/07 Champs were, even when I look at Green/Humphrey not being #1 on the list, I wouldn't put Williams/Beal on that team and expect it to be bitter. They were perfect compliments to each other.

    Beal deserves special mention also I think. My criteria for ranking is best full season as a Gator, and while he started more slowly (to be expected) by the NCAA tournament Beal had become a monster at whichever position he was playing.
  9. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    So, what were Nick's teams if Walker's first team was "horrendous"?

    I thought we'd be better in 2009-10 with or without Nick, because we were adding some badly needed beef to the middle in the form of Macklin. We lost only Calathes and Hodges from the 08-09 team, but replaced Nick at the point with Walker and replaced Hodges with Boynton (who led the team in scoring and I think was an upgrade over Hodges even as a freshman). And, we added Macklin to a position where we sorely needed some beef. We also returned one-year-older Parsons (who I think improved substantially every year) and Tyus (who I think improved a little bit every year) and Werner (who I think was a better player than most give him credit for, but the biggest improvement for him was that he didn't have to guard the opposing team's 5 as much with Macklin around). I think that adds up to a better team even with my opinion that Walker was not as good as Calathes.

    Plus, the regular season records were fairly similar: 23-10 overall, 9-7 SEC for 08-09 and 21-12 overall, 9-7 SEC for 09-10 (not including NIT or NCAA games); we did play a tougher schedule in 09/10.

    Calathes did play with a very talented Speights in 07/08, but no one ever accused Speights of being consistent (they still don't even though he's probably more talented than quite a few starters in the NBA). That team also had a jr Hodges, a soph Werner, and a bunch of freshmen playing (starters Calathes & Jai Lucas, and reserves Parsons, Tyus, and Adam Allen).
  10. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 VIP Member

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    Calathes also had Walker to pass to. Erv played with KB, who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn his freshman year , Werner (who was terrible), Macklin (who was a year away) and Tyus (who was okay), with Murphy, Parsons and Shipman coming off the bench. That may have been the worst bench the Gators have had in years. All in all, that was a bad team, but Walker was really good.
  11. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    So do you think that if Calathes had stayed one more year that the 2010 team wouldn't have made the NCAA tournament?
  12. tampajack1
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    tampajack1 VIP Member

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    Yes, if Erv wasn't on the team. No one on that team, other than Erv, could make an outside shot. Tyus and Macklin could score reasonably well inside, but they were a year away from their games peaking. Macklin was horrendous from the free throw line. The bench was terrible. We would have suffered defensively with Nick and would not have had the late game free throw shooting and outside shooting that Erv brought to the team.
  13. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about this question some more, I looked up the KenPom ratings of those Florida teams, and the results don't give much support to the "+Walker, -Calathes makes a team better" hypothesis. As regurgi pointed out, all those teams actually displayed pretty similar results. We don't see any improvement until 2011:

    Year.....Record......KenPom ranking
    2008.....24-12................44
    2009.....25-11.................42
    2010.....21-13.................48
    2011......29-8..................16
    2012.....26-11..................11
    2013......29-8...................2

    It looks to me like the improvement of the teams had little to do with losing Calathes.
  14. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    People just didn't like Calathes on a personal level and it clouds their perception of his ability and what he brought to the team.
  15. LetItFly
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    LetItFly Well-Known Member

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    I can see how some people did not like Calathes, but personally I liked him. If he could play an ounce of d he was probaly the best pg under Donovan.
  16. regurgigator
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    regurgigator VIP Member

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    I think Calathes' defensive deficiencies are overstated by most. He wasn't quick, but he wasn't as slow as some people like to make out (even though he can't jump) and he had good length. My recollection is that Donovan often put Calathes on the opponent's top scoring back court player (which may also say something about the rest of the defensive talent on those teams). Nick was even considered a pretty good defender in the European league he played in (although I don't foresee him getting acclaim for his defense in the NBA :cool:).
  17. LetItFly
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    LetItFly Well-Known Member

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    What seems a bit funny to me, is that he looks much better defensively now and a lot quicker than when he was in college. Euroleague definitely paid off for him

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