Bad calls by Umpire...

Discussion in 'Around the Horn - Baseball & Men's Gator Sports!' started by ArtVandelay, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Infield fly is totally umpire's discretion. And once called, there is no changing or overturning it. With that said, the ump got it wrong last year. There was a chance all runners would have been safe, and no chance of a double play, which is what the infield fly rule prevents--a fielder intentionally dropping a pop fly to try and turn 2. And to prove the point the ump got it wrong, ESPN went back as far as they could and the call last year was a good 60 feet farther out then any other infield fly ESPN could find!
  2. LoyalGatorFan
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    I agree with AzCatFan....Holbrook got it wrong on multiple levels....first off, by rule you are supposed to make the call as the ball is going up in the air or at its highest point...he waited until the ball almost hit the ground to call it...secondly it just wasnt an infield fly to start with....it was in shallow left field....It was Matt Holidays ball.....I dont know the actual distance from home plate to where it landed but I would guess at least 180-200 feet...that is not even close to an infield fly...
  3. gatorump
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    This is incorrect it has to be fair and be able to be caught with ordinary effort by an infielder. Doesn't matter where the infielder is.
  4. gtr2x
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    gtr2x Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    I understand why the rule is in place, but I hate the infield fly rule. It's way too subjective for me as to how high the ball has to be, where the ball is, could it have been caught, when it gets called by the ump, etc. Never seems to get called in my team's favor anyway.
  5. gatorump
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    Please don't quote rules you don't know. The reason that called looked so bad is because it is a poorly written rule. Back when the rules were written there was no way a short stop or second baseman could get that far by using ordinary effort. As soon as the short stop began to wave his arms he demonstrated that he could reach the ball with ordinary effort. The ball does not have to be caught by an infielder and should not be called until the infielder has demonstrated ordinary effort. The problem is that ESPN wants to play up a controversy. There should be pressure to change the wording or the interpretation of the rule. Holbrook implemented the rule with the interpretation he had been given.
  6. LoyalGatorFan
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    LoyalGatorFan Active Member

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    Please don't lecture me on ordinary effort...a shortstop backpedaling into shallow LF is not ordinary effort....thats not a play a SS typically makes....the ball fell right in front of the LF....everyone on here except you knows its the wrong call...whether its a bad rule or a bad call either way its bad....
  7. LoyalGatorFan
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    LoyalGatorFan Active Member

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    Oh and one more thing....the SS never even caught the ball because he gave way to the LEFT FIELDER who was calling him off...
  8. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Moderator

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    Ump, what's your take on the strike zone as the rule is written?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  9. gatorump
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    Way to ignore that you quoted the rule book and never even looked at it. The rule is bad and last year proved it. Fix the rule don't blame the one paid to enforce it how it is written.
  10. LoyalGatorFan
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    LoyalGatorFan Active Member

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    Why would I quote a bad rule? I'm not going to use faulty information to back up my argument...its a bad rule and it was a bad call by him because IMO it wasnt ordinary effort...unless shortstops backpedal into left field on every play which im pretty sure they dont do....
  11. gatorump
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    A few years ago they tried to get the 'high strike', all they did was change the interpretation of when a batter is prepared to hit. Under the old interpretation as you were in full stride swinging at the ball the letters sunk to about where your belt was. The new interpretation came so that when you took your initial stance. There was a huge emphasis on this in the minors hopeful that the next generation of players would swing at the 'high strike'. The way it is written now is fine but they need to get the old school umps and the new school umps on the same page with the same interpretations and stick with it. The days in pro ball of getting that ball a 4-8 inches outside should be gone. But we all know how that goes. In college the bats won't let you throw inside because you can't saw em'off, so I actually think the plate should be widened by two inches in college (never happen).
  12. gatorump
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAbIEkZU2TY

    The announcers really don't understand it either, but look around the 1:45 mark and you will see Holbrook call it as the fielder begins to camp under it.

    Loyal, Look I get it, I won't change your opinion, but it is not Holbrook's fault. And if you didn't know that a shortstop can backpedal into left field and catch a popup, you don't watch much baseball. I think the rule is dumb a double play should be able to be turned, but that isn't how the rule is written. Don't shoot the messenger.
  13. Potzer01
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    Watching that again he's not backpedalling, he's sprinting with his head turned to look at the ball. I still say not ordinary effort, and a bad call.

    However the clarity on the ruling given in this thread is interesting. It lets me know why he made the call.

    I'd say it'd depend on the implementation. An expensive way would be with high speed, high res cameras. (like you see on TV)

    A cheaper way would be with a sensor in the ball/plate. Its not rocket science. I suspect it could be accomplished for < 50$ per home plate, and less then 1$ a ball. The more expensive part would be relaying the information to the umpire(via a HUD, or audio trigger), because baseball purists would go nuts with no umps behind the plate =x
  14. WESGATORS
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    Create a new line in the outfield, and call it the Holbrook line. Make it right about where the ball hit, anything inside of that is fair game for "infield fly" no matter who is pursuing it. Anything outside of that is not. ;)

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  15. gatorump
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    1. I was referring to Loyal's assertions that shortstop's do indeed backpedal (Loyal's word not mine) into the out field.

    2. I wouldn't call it a sprint.

    3. I respect your opinion of ordinary effort

    One of the things we were taught at umpire school when determining this is once they can settle under it that is what makes it ordinary effort, not always how hard or far they ran to get there. Once they begin to wave their hands under it they have demonstrated ordinary effort. We were always told to hold our water on windy days, because wind can make things a lot less ordinary.
  16. 74nole
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    Sounds like we've got a bon-a-fide tailgatoring session over-due with plenty to talk 'bout.....ice'em down boys, light the grills, we'll have something and a col'beer.:wink:
  17. LoyalGatorFan
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    Okay just replace my word backpedaling with sprinting....the game up until this conversation was vividly etched out of my mind so I couldnt recall if he backpedaled or not...either way its not ordinary effort...unless I need to look up what the word ordinary means...

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