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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Mar 18, 2014.
Ok, but again, that is not what "American exceptionalism" means.
Basically, this issue and thread seems to follow the course of many of them. The transition for the Internet has been planned since 1998. Since then, Republicans have had the White House for half that time, the Senate for half that time and the House for most of it. There were years when they had all three.
But I don't recall any major GOP effort to change the plan.
Now that what's been planned for 16 years is actually starting to happen, Republicans blame it all on Obama and think it's an outrage.
And on Too Hot, conservatives think it's an outrage, they just can't tell you why.
I can tell you why river-I do not want or think we need despots and dictators from Europe and elsewhere controlling what we do and I am totally against globalism
that is what it means to me obob
why don't you oh omnipotent one enlighten us
The world has become a very frustrating place hasn't it?
Ok, but when you lash out against people who do not promote American exceptionalism, you should understand that it is a very different subject than the notion of America being "good."
It means that by pure virtue of our existence, we are immune to the problems, rules and constraints that we believe other country's should be subjected to. It implies that the United States is in someone divinely crafted, and that we should be allowed to play by rules that other countries cannot.
We're certainly not the first country to operate on this premise.
I totally disagree with what you think American exceptionalism is
It's not what I think, it's the generally accepted definition. The dual meaning of "exceptional" seems to cause great confusion.
where is it the generally "accepted" meaning?
I think I've explained it. That inherently, America is and will forever be different than other countries and thus is not subject to the same constraints, problems and rules that we (or others) would otherwise have imposed on other nations.
It's also been said that this exceptionalism (often divine in nature) implies a responsibility across the globe (for whatever purpose you wish to fill in here).
Meh. As a conservative, I can say that any conservative who opposes net neutrality does not understand the market for ISPs on a fundamental level. They're rather monopolistic, and not based on merit (i.e. they created a product or service of overwhelmingly better value than their competitors), and consumers have little to no choice or power. It's a situation where regulation and government involvement is merited.
Not really worried about despots and dictators taking over the internet when major corporations are quietly making the push for control with the t.p.p. and Obama's appointment to head the negotiations is scary at best.
I think obob already covered it well, but what I meant by myth and generally what others have meant by it is that our "unique" emergence in the world (a form of exceptionalism written about by Tocqueville) has come to take on a vastly different meaning for some segments of society which is to say that we are somehow righteously or morally superior than other countries, divinely chosen etc....
But let's face it, this is what often happens. Someone writes or says something about something or someone and than that statement gets twisted, takes on different meanings etc...
see I do not think you in anyway answered my question
that may be a definition you want to accept as do most liberals(and yes I realize you are supposedly a fence sitter)but no where can i find anyone other than a liberal making this claim-so I do not believe it is a widely accepted definition-unless of course you are a liberal
Actually, the concept has extremely conservative roots, but keep fighting the good fight, bill.
Bill we have to see this for the kind of hodgepodge of an idea(s) that it is. It started out with Tocqueville and others calling American style democracy, which emerged from the revolution, as exceptional. But others throughout history have come to take the notion of America being exceptional as our role in the world being divinely ordained. There's quite a bit of writing on this already so it's not as if anyone is just making it up.
Arguably it starts with the Puritan idea of "an errand into the wilderness." Danforth:
Yep. Actually, you post shows that the notion of a divine exceptionalism precedes Tocqueville's notion. It's the whole shining city on a hill Reagan speech, and others who have followed suit in invoking such metaphorical language to include the general belief that American presidents are leaders of the free world (which they arguably are in some ways given America's military and economic position, but not because there is some supernatural determination of our position in the world.