Athlon previews the 2014 Gators

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by mulegator, May 13, 2014.

  1. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    LOL! I knew this was coming. I am looking at yardage allowed, not points scored, as points can also be scored by the defense. Iowa played several good offenses and didn't blown out by any of them. Ditto with Wisconsin and Clemson. neither LSU nor USCe ran wild on them. Only FSU and Georgia gained more than 500 yards on Clemson. USCe gained 318 yards.

    It's not like SEC defenses face a host of great offenses, like Big XII and PAC teams do. The SEC is also a defense-dominant conference.

    I know it hurts, but many teams outside the SEC also play good football, and Ohio State's offense was legitimate in 2013. Give credit where credit is due.
  2. Tebowism0823
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    Tebowism0823 VIP Member

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    Yeah we all know how you hate the SOS being brought up; tends to hurt your arguments a lot. When I'm in front of a computer I'll do the numbers.
  3. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    LOL! C'mon. You certainly do not do well with respectful dissent, my friend...

    An X-win SEC team is at BEST 1/2 game better than an X-win team from another BCS conference. Spare me the Sagarin nonsense, who also has bias in his calculations.

    Michigan State, Iowa and Wisconsin would have strong defenses in ANY conference, as would ANY team in the top 15 nationally (at least from BCS conferences).

    To hear some of you talk, Florida would have had a top 50 offense if they played anywhere except the SEC.

    Alabama's two games against BCS OOC competition was below their overall average for yards/game. So was LSU's. So was Auburn. So was Ole Miss. So was USCe. So was Georgia. So was Tennesse, Vandy, Miss State. And so was Florida's.

    You get the idea...
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  4. Tebowism0823
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    Not sure where you're getting disrespect from but that wasn't my intent. However we know from previous debate you dislike SOS talk because it does weaken your argument.

    I also can't speak for others but I'm not against giving credit where it's due. I'm also going to make sure the credit and info is correct. Just one of the teams you mentioned that had a good defense I looked up because I found their stats and the name being mentioned hilarious.

    Good ole Clemson. Take the 6 teams on their schedule with decent to good offenses and you'll see the truth about their defense.

    Opp

    Fsu 575 yards
    Uga 545 yards
    Gt 445 yards
    Osu 427 yards
    Usce 420 yards while only passing 14 times
    Maryland 369 obviously not bad here but then again. ... it's Maryland.

    That's an avg of 461.6. That is who their defense is.

    The fact is while you like stats, and I'm normally with you on most of your posts, you seen to hate digging a little deeper when it comes to SOS and I'm not sure why. Your argument about teams having off games and there in ok with. However, not when it's the NORM for a team.

    I'm sure I could do the same thing for the other three teams, well two anyways (MSU is legit), but there really is no point as I personally already know the outcome.

    Then again, this whole debate stated because I made a statement that Meyers production, but W/L, on both sides of the ball had gone down since losing Strong and Mullen. You yourself have documented how is offense at UF the last two years struggled. I also think ours no secret his defense isn't the best like it was either and he's recruited fine. That's not a knock on him but more to sure that the assistants do matter and hopefully Muschamp has found his on the offensive side of the ball.

    Ps. I think you should revisit that "anybody in the top 15" would have a top defense in any conference theory.
  5. Wormwood56
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    I don't dislike SOS, but I think far too many people put him higher up on a pedestal than he deserves. he is a great coach, but he has had quite a bit of good fortune.

    As for the top 15 defenses, I think if the team played in a Power Five conference, then yes, they would have a good defense in ANY conference.

    I could pull out the numbers to demonstrate it. The SEC usually does not have strong offenses like the Big XII and PAC. Show me a top 15 defense in the Big XII when 3-4 opponents have top ten offenses and I'll show you a helluva defense.
  6. Tebowism0823
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    SOS = Strength of schedule

    I've already done the numbers.
  7. slayerxing
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    slayerxing Premium Member

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    I agree, that contrary to popular opinion, there are other teams in the country that play good defense outside of the SEC. I think SEC pride in that area has blinded many to the good football played in other conferences.

    I do not agree with your assessment of Steve Spurrier. He came to Florida, which had never really won much of anything, and turned Florida into a national power. Then he went to perennial doormat USCe, and made them into a title contender. He has a sustained record of excellence. That isn't an accident. Do his teams drop a turd now and then? Yes, but who doesn't? He's a hall of fame coach.
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  8. Tebowism0823
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    That's not the issue. Worm quoted 4 teams, which one was Clemson, and stated they played good defense. I provided numbers showing differently.
  9. Wormwood56
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    ROTFL! Sorry...

    I don't care for the way some calculate SOS. Perhaps if the calculations were more consistent, I would go with them, but for now, I prefer to see what teams did head-to-head.
  10. slayerxing
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    Yeah I've never felt like Clemson had a particularly good defense. They are often serviceable.
  11. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    That's OK. Lots of people disagree here :).

    Spurrier indeed took Florida to its greatest heights up to that point. Of that, there is NO question. But Ray Graves built the foundation, and Charley Pell built the modern Florida team to what it was. His 1983-1985 teams were every bit as good as most of Spurrier's or Meyer's teams. Yeah, he cheated, but then again, no one can tell me that Alabala, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, LSU, etc., didn't ALSO cheat their butts off. We older Gators know better. Where do you think Pell learned his craft? Clemson?

    Had Florida's name been, say, Alabama, and Pell's last name was, say, Bryant, Florida would have continued to be a top five team throughout the late 1980s, IMO. Consider that even being dealt crushing sanctions, we STILL never had a losing season during the sanction period. Galen Hall was a great recruiter. Without sanctions and those ridiculous charges, he probably would have remained the Florida coach well into the 21st Century, and it would have been Hall that would have received the glory, not Spurrier. Spurrier acknowledged many times that he inherited a cupboard that was groaning with talent just coming into its own, and he exploited it with an offense that was innovative and impossible for the run-dominant SEC to stop. Emmitt probably would have returned for his senior season and Florida would have returned to the top ten.

    It is interesting to note that USCe does not win with Spurrier's bread and butter, either. His offenses have been between mediocre to bad for seven of his nine years at USCe. Like Saban, Beamer, Miles, Bielema and many others, Spurrier wins with defense these days. Being that Spurrier doesn't coach the defense, shouldn't Ellis Johnson and Lorenzo Ward have FAR gotten more kudos than they received? The Ball Coach tends to be like a black hole; praise is usually directed to him, while criticism is usually deflected. He had his first six years which were basically no better than Holtz's last five years before things clicked into place.

    As for SOS at USCe, well yeah, he DID build them, but again, was it Spurrier that did it, or was it a combination of things. From 2000-2010, a period of 11 years:

    USCe: 77-59 (.566)
    Clemson: 85-54 (.612)

    Being that USCe's SOS was somewhat more difficult than Clemson's, one could say that USCe and Clemson were nearly identical, both in recruiting and on the field. But from 2011-2013:

    USCe: 33-6 (.846)
    Clemson: 32-8 (.840)

    Both teams rose well over 200 percentage points from their 11 year average during the 2000-2010 timeframe. Regardless of the relative strengths of schedules, that is an incredible rise.

    Being that BOTH teams rose in such a fashion, one cannot help but conclude that either (a) both Spurrier AND Swinney are great coaches, (b) the state of South Carolina is becoming a recruiting hotbed, and/or (c) the fact that because they are BOTH winning big, the pattern of success in recruiting follows them. Was Florida State a great recruiting power prior to 1987? Not to the same degree Miami and Florida were.

    Like a snowball rolling downhill, success begats success.

    One may also have to consider the level of competition both teams played. Looking at annual opponents (minus head-to-head game:

    Clemson Opponent---------2005-2010-------------2011-2013--------------Edge

    Boston College..........................50-24 (.676)..................13-21 (.382)....................2005-10 by +.294
    Maryland..................................37-32 (.536)...................13-21 (.382)....................2005-10 by +.154
    Florida State.............................46-27 (.630)...................33-5 (.868).....................2011-13 by +.238
    Wake Forest.............................38-31 (.551)....................15-19 (.441)...................2005-10 by +.110
    NC State...................................37-33 (.529)....................17-18 (.486)...................2005-10 by +.043
    Georgia Tech...........................45-28 (.616).....................21-16 (.568)...................2005-10 by +.048
    Cross-Division Rotation #1.....49-22 (.690)....................25-12 (.676)...................2005-10 by +.014
    Cross-Division Rotation #2.....18-48 (.273)....................15-20 (.429)...................2011-13 by +.206
    Bowl Game..............................44-28 (.611)....................31-6 (.838).....................2011-13 by +.227

    Total.......................................364-273 (.581).................183-138 (.570).................2005-10 by +011


    USCe Opponent-------------2005-2010-------------2011-2013--------------Edge

    Arkansas...................................41-29 (.586)..................17-17 (.500).....................2005-10 by +.086
    Florida.......................................61-13 (.824)..................21-15 (.583)......................2005-10 by +.251
    Georgia......................................50-22 (.694).................29-9 (.763).......................2011-13 by +.069
    Kentucky...................................38-32 (.543)..................9-24 (.273).......................2005-10 by +.270
    Tennessee..................................39-32 (.549).................14-19 (.424)......................2005-10 by +.125
    Vandy........................................24-42 (.364)................24-12 (.667).......................2011-13 by +.303
    Cross-Division Rotation #1......65-9 (.878)...................24-12 (.667).......................2005-10 by +.211
    Cross-Division Rotation #2*....37-22 (.627).................24-12 (.667).......................2011-13 by +.040
    Bowl Game...............................39-21 (.650).................26-10 (.722).......................2011-13 by +.072

    Total.........................................394-222 (.640).............188-130 (.591)....................2005-10 by +.049

    USCe's overall schedule against BCS conference teams has clearly been tougher, but the gap between toughness from the earlier period to the later period is less profound for Clemson than USCe. From 2011-13, the toughness gap closed.

    Clemson played six that were tougher in 2005-10 than in 2011-13, while USCe played five tougher teams during that stretch. USCe had a somewhat easier time of it in 2011-13 than in 2005-10, primarily due to the fall of Florida and Arkansas (to a lesser extent).

    How will the future hold? Clemson gets Louisville as a regular opponent instead of a rotational opponent, and if Petrino is still the offensive guru he always was, it will not bode well for the Tigers. Petrino will be a pain in Dabo's butt.

    USCe swaps Arkansas for Texas A&M, a school that recruits better than Arkansas and also has a much better offensive coach to go up against Ward's defense. Mizzou also poses problems. Which Mizzou team was more representative of the team, the 5-7 team of 2012 or the 12-2 offensive powerhouse of 2013?

    I believe that within five years:

    * Clemson will have a far easier road than USCe, and it will be reflected in the W/L records and possibly the head to head games. Clemson will out-recruit USCe due to those better W/L records.

    * I do not see Tennessee staying down with their still strong recruiting.

    * The balance of power will return to the SEC East, with Florida, Tennessee, Georgia and Mizzou gaining strength, while Vandy will return to the bottom. Four powerful SEC East opponents plus the Aggies, Clemson and a bowl opponent speaks ill for USCe down the road. They may have a team that is 10-win quality, but end up with 8 wins a year, whether SOS is there or not.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
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  12. Wormwood56
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    At 25th, they were decent. They weren't Virginia Tech or Florida State. I simply added them because they finished in the top 25.

    This is why I used 2012 Vandy as a counter example. They were ranked 19th, yet they weren't all that good, either. the same could be said about Vandy's 2013 defense, which was ranked 23d, two ranks ahead of Clemson.

    Vandy gave up:

    * 489 yards to Ole Miss, who had a good but not great offense;
    * 579 yards to USCe, whose offense wasn't even in the top 30;
    * 523 yards to Mizzou, who DID have a great offense;
    * 558 yards to Texas A&M, who had an even BETTER offense;
    * 344 yards to the hapless Gators, whose offense was probably the worst out of Gainesville since Dr. O was slinging the rock to Chris Collinsworth in 1979...

    That all works the same for most teams.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  13. DMann
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    Clemson has won the past 3 years by outscoring opponents. Without Sammy, Bryant and Boyd, Venables will have to have a top 15 D for Clemson to win 9 games next year with UGA, FSU and USCe on their schedule.
  14. DMann
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    Spur's is not the warmest personality on the planet but he is as good a HBC as there is and has proven it whereever he's been. He won an ACC title at Duke and won a ton of SEC titles at UF as well as playing for 2 nationals and winning one. He surpassed anything I expected as far a longevity and W's at USCe. Over the past 3 years he trails only Sabin and Miles in wins. In looking at USCe's recruiting recent history, his rosters have been many recruiting stars behind Bama, LSU, UGA, UF, aTm and most years UT and Auburn - yet he is 3rd in W's the past 3 years. He and staff either develops his players, gets 100% out of 90% talent or out coaches his Saturday opponent.

    Prior to Spur's move back to Gainesville, UGA owned us thru the 70's and 80's. Prior to his move to Columbia, we owned the Coots. Additionally, USC's biggest rival had owned their series but now Clemson has lost 4 straight. Spur's brought his team to Clemson in '12 with a 2nd team QB and beat them handily to keep the streak alive.

    I hate that he's an opponent but admire his honesty, optimism and ability to coach 'em up.
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  15. slayerxing
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    Wormwood, once again, you use statistics to present a valid, well-reasoned argument.

    That being said, just because UF was talented didn't mean that any coach that walked through the door was going to be successful. UF didn't reach their true peak under Spurrier until 1995. That was fully Spurrier's team. They then proceeded to win (from 1994-1997) 25 straight SEC games, and from 1993-1997, UF was 40-4 in the SEC and won 4 SEC titles and a national title, and from 1993-1997, they were 55-7-1. That is one of the best runs in history, and that was done entirely with Spurrier's players.

    Now sure, had Florida turned into a recruiting hotbed in the 80's? Yes. Clearly. Miami and FSU coming to life also prove that. But Florida still needed a coach that could take advantage of that. And Spurrier did that. Amazingly so.

    Ok so now to South Carolina. Has the recruiting improved in the state of South Carolina? Absolutely. There has been big talent coming out of there for 10-15 years now at least. But is that the only reason these teams are better? No! It has been shown time and again that recruiting is not the only thing that makes good teams. You also have to have good coaching, and buy in from the players, and strong coaching staffs. Dabo has put together a great staff, and Spurrier has regularly had strong assistant coaches. That's part of his job, and it's part of the reason that South Carolina has climbed up the SEC hierarchy.

    Have UF, UT, and UGA had some down years recently? Yes! But how much of that is BECAUSE of South Carolina? That relationship works both ways.

    Stats only tell part of the story.
  16. mdfgator
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    mdfgator Well-Known Member

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    It's baffling how some around here don't understand this painfully obvious scenario...
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  17. Wormwood56
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    Spur's is not the warmest personality on the planet but he is as good a HBC as there is and has proven it whereever he's been.

    Not sure I agree, even though he is a very good head coach. Saban, Meyer, Snyder and others did as well or better, as did others. Bowden too until senility kicked in.

    He won an ACC title at Duke...

    With an 8-4 record, losing the head to head matchup with a Virginia team that was miles ahead of Duke. Winning at Duke is noteworthy, but Cutcliffe did even better this year. Jim Grobe's ACC title at Wake Forest was also more impressive, yet who calls him a genius?

    and won a ton of SEC titles at UF as well as playing for 2 nationals and winning one. He surpassed anything I expected as far a longevity and W's at USCe.

    This is true...

    Over the past 3 years he trails only Sabin and Miles in wins.

    How about over the past seven years?

    In looking at USCe's recruiting recent history, his rosters have been many recruiting stars behind Bama, LSU, UGA, UF, aTm and most years UT and Auburn - yet he is 3rd in W's the past 3 years. He and staff either develops his players, gets 100% out of 90% talent or out coaches his Saturday opponent.

    You seem to like the last three years, and they have been impressive. He has a great DC, who has been the foundation of the team. He also had Connor Shaw at quarterback, whse scrambling made his offense look MUCH better than it actually was. Not sure who he outcoached, however. He usually loses a game per year BECAUSE of his gameday coaching decisions involving playcalling and clock management. He's human.

    Prior to Spur's move back to Gainesville, UGA owned us thru the 70's and 80's.

    Except for 1992 and 1997, Georgia was mediocre to bad in the 1990s, including four non-winning seasons in ten years.

    Prior to his move to Columbia, we owned the Coots. Additionally, USC's biggest rival had owned their series but now Clemson has lost 4 straight. Spur's brought his team to Clemson in '12 with a 2nd team QB and beat them handily to keep the streak alive.

    We still own them. When they beat us, Florida was down, if not dysfunctional.

    I hate that he's an opponent but admire his honesty, optimism and ability to coach 'em up.

    He's a very good coach, but folks in Gainesville and Columbia tend to put him on a higher pedestal. Superficially, he produced miracles, when when one scratches the surface, one finds that it wasn't such a miracle after all...

    * He shared an ACC title when everyone with the same conference record got a trophy;

    * He inherited a machine at Florida and maximized it;

    * He was given six years at USCe, dooing no beter than Holtz until he finally broke thru without a good offense.

    Spurrier was probably noted more for style than substance at Florida, winning spectacularly with eye-popping numbers. He also had some tremendous tgames against top tier opposition (1991 Alabama, 1993 West Virginia, 1995 Tennessee, 1996 LSU, 1996 FSU, 2001 LSU, 2001 Maryland). But against teams with fewer than three losses (minus h to h games):

    Year------------Opponent-------W/L----------Score-------Margin

    1990....................Tennessee.............8-2-2..............L 3-45..........-42
    1990....................Florida State.........9-2-0.............L 30-45........-15
    1991....................Alabama..............11-0-0.............W 31-0.........+31
    1991....................Syracuse................9-2-0.............L 21-38.........-17
    1991....................Florida State........11-1-0.............W 14-9.........+05
    1991....................Notre Dame...........9-2-0.............L 28-39.........-11
    1992....................Georgia................10-1-0.............W 26-24.......+02
    1992.....................Florida State........10-1-0.............L 24-45........-21
    1992.....................Alabama..............12-0-0.............L 21-28........-07
    1993.....................Tennessee...............9-1-1.............W 41-34......+07
    1993.....................Auburn.................10-0-0............L 35-38.........-03
    1993.....................Florida State.........11-1-0.............L 21-33.........-12
    1993.....................West Virginia........11-0-0............W 41-7.........+34
    1994.....................Auburn...................8-1-1.............L 33-36.........-03
    1994.....................Florida State...........9-1-0............T 31-31..........00
    1994.....................Alabama...............12-0-0...........W 24-23.........+01
    1994.....................Florida State...........9-1-0............L 17-23..........-06
    1995.....................Tennessee..............11-0-0...........W 62-37.........+25
    1995.....................Florida State..........10-1-0...........W 35-24.........+11
    1995.....................Nebraska................11-0-0...........L 24-62..........-38
    1996.....................Tennessee...............10-1-0...........W 35-29.........+06
    1996.....................LSU.........................10-1-0...........W 56-13.........+43
    1996.....................Florida State............10-0-0...........L 21-24..........-03
    1996.....................Florida State............10-1-0...........W 52-20.........+32 (yeah!)
    1997.....................Tennessee................10-1-0...........W 33-20..........+13
    1997.....................Georgia.....................9-2-0............L 17-37............-20
    1997.....................Florida State............11-0-0...........W 32-29...........+03
    1998.....................Tennessee.................12-0-0..........L 17-20.............-03
    1998.....................Florida State.............10-2-0..........L 12-23.............-11
    1999.....................Florida State.............11-0-0..........L 23-30.............-09
    1999.....................Michigan State...........9-2-0..........L 34-37.............-03
    2000....................Florida State.............10-2-0...........L 7-30..............-23
    2000....................Miami.......................10-1-0...........L 20-37............-17
    2001.....................Tennessee.................10-2-0...........L 32-34............-02
    2001.....................Maryland..................10-1-0...........W 56-23...........+33

    Total...........................................................................1009-1027
    Average........................................................................28.8 - 29.3 16-20-1

    Considering the calibre of competition he faced, a 16-20-1 is a damned good record. Spurrier handed a remarkable five tams their only loss in 12 years. But FSU was 14- 14-1 against such teams over that same span, handing four teams their only loss. The usual bromide here was that FSU only had to play their starters for two games a year, but that was nothing more than homer nonsense.

    I give him great credit for being a great CEO at USCe, however. He also wins a higher percentage of games against top teams than he did at Florida. This is his best coaching job ever.

    We'll see how long it lasts. USCe is still 8th in the SEC in recruiting. Texas A&M is a more formidable foe than a Petrino-less Arkansas. Florida, Georgia and Tennessee will not stay down forever. Don't know about Mizzou, another overachiever like USCe.
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  18. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood, once again, you use statistics to present a valid, well-reasoned argument.

    Thanks! :)

    That being said, just because UF was talented didn't mean that any coach that walked through the door was going to be successful. UF didn't reach their true peak under Spurrier until 1995.

    Not sure about that. 9-2-1, 9-1-1 and 9-1-1 is as good as anything we had under SOS, at least until Danny was in his prime. That was ALSO the true peak.

    That was fully Spurrier's team. They then proceeded to win (from 1994-1997) 25 straight SEC games, and from 1993-1997, UF was 40-4 in the SEC and won 4 SEC titles and a national title, and from 1993-1997, they were 55-7-1. That is one of the best runs in history, and that was done entirely with Spurrier's players.

    Interesting that after the 1998 season, the well tended to dry up a bit. Who were his best recruiters that recruited those teams?

    SEC Opponents W/L Record, regular season:

    Year-----------W/L Record------------Conference Losses

    1990....................42-36-3 (.537)..............1
    1991.....................49-32 (.605).................1
    1992.....................46-44-1 (.511)..............2
    1993....................47-40-3 (.538)..............1
    1994....................44-44-1 (.500)..............1
    1995.....................48-42-2 (.533)..............0
    1996.....................49-42 (.538)..................0
    1997.....................57-37 (.606)..................2
    1998.....................46-47 (.495)..................1
    1999.....................46-47 (.495)..................1
    2000....................54-41 (.568)...................1
    2001....................52-43 (.547)...................2
    2002....................59-43 (.578)...................2
    2003....................64-39 (.621)...................2
    2004....................47-45 (.511)...................4
    2005.....................54-40 (.574).................3
    2006.....................66-37 (.641)..................1
    2007.....................64-39 (.621)..................3
    2008.....................58-44 (.569)..................1..............................USCe's opponents
    2009.....................53-49 (.520)..................0
    2010.....................59-45 (.567)..................4..............................62-42 (.596)
    2011.....................70-34 (.673)..................5...............................59-44 (.573)
    2012.....................65-37 (.637)...................1..............................58-43 (.574)
    2013.....................60-42 (.588)..................5..............................50-51 (.495)

    Spurrier:........580-495-10 (.539).....................13 losss
    Zook:..............170-127-00 (.572).......................8
    Meyer:............354-254-00 (.582)....................12
    Muschamp:....195-113-00 (.633).....................11

    2010-2013:

    Florida: 254-158 (.632)
    USCe:....229-180 (.559)

    Even if you normalize the losses, Spurrier had the easiest schedule of SEC opponents compared to his successors, and in the last four years, his SEC schedule was far easier than Florida's. Wonder if he would have 11-2 with our schedules? My guess:

    2010: 9-5 versus 9-5
    2011: 10-3 versus 11-2
    2012: 8-5 versus 11-2
    2013: 9-4 versus 11-2

    But that's sheer speculation. He did what he did, and that is good enough. We went 13-1 with an easy schedule in 2009, and I claim it.

    Now sure, had Florida turned into a recruiting hotbed in the 80's? Yes. Clearly. Miami and FSU coming to life also prove that. But Florida still needed a coach that could take advantage of that. And Spurrier did that. Amazingly so.

    Respectfully, I submit to you that if Galen Hall wasn't saddled by crippling sanctions, he would have won big at Florida. He had three seasons where he went 27-4-3 (.838). That record was not done with one or two superstars, either. Those were great TEAMS, and he was a great coach. an .838 winning percentage is very Spurrier-esque or Meyer-esque. Hall was a great coach.

    Would Galen have won games 44-17? No. He would have won games 24-7. Still counts as a win.

    Ok so now to South Carolina. Has the recruiting improved in the state of South Carolina? Absolutely.

    Yup. It helped BOTH teams.

    There has been big talent coming out of there for 10-15 years now at least. But is that the only reason these teams are better?

    Predominantly.

    No! It has been shown time and again that recruiting is not the only thing that makes good teams. You also have to have good coaching, and buy in from the players, and strong coaching staffs. Dabo has put together a great staff, and Spurrier has regularly had strong assistant coaches. That's part of his job, and it's part of the reason that South Carolina has climbed up the SEC hierarchy.

    Well, then why did it take Spurs seven years to break the crust? Compare the impact of Spurrier at USCe with Petrino at Arkansas and Sumlin at Texas A&M (or Meyer at Florida).

    And my question remains: If the reason for USCe's great success the last three years was Spurrier, was Clemson's great success the last three years equally Dabo? Can't have one without the other.

    Have UF, UT, and UGA had some down years recently? Yes! But how much of that is BECAUSE of South Carolina? That relationship works both ways.

    To a degree. But since 2010, take out the USCe game and:

    2010-2013----------------------------------2005-2009

    Florida: 29-18 (.617).................................53-9...(.854)
    Georgia: 35-15 (.700).................................44-16 (.746)
    Tenn: .....20-25 (.444).................................33-25 (.570)

    Total.....84-58 (.592)........................130-48 (.730)

    The SEC's Big Three was FAR, FAR better from 2005-2009 than they were the last four years.

    Stats only tell part of the story.

    Yes. About 80%. Intangibles take up the other 20%.
  19. slayerxing
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    slayerxing Premium Member

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    What's so funny about all of the stats you post, is that behind them, you are still giving us subjective opinions.

    There are so many factors and criteria that go into every statistic. Simply looking at wins and losses of the opponents on the schedule is far too simplistic an approach to take. IMO.

    Dabo and Spurrier deserve credit for their teams winning so many games. Both of them. Is Dabo as good a coach as Spurrier? IDK.

    What I do know, is that your argument is ridiculous. You're talking about one of the winningest coaches in history, who has won at 3 different places, and you're saying he was either lucky, or that other people have done better in single, stand alone seasons, or that perhaps a coach WHO NEVER AGAIN COACHED A COLLEGE GAME, could have in fact been better, when he couldn't even run a clean program with the lens of the NCAA already on the school. Unless you believe him that all the allegations in 89 were false I guess... As he maintains. But he almost got UF kicked off TV. That's not a great head coach.

    Your argument, while it looks like it is backed by statistics, is really just you having taken up a lot of time listing opponents wins and losses like they actually tell the whole story. When they don't. Not even close.
  20. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    What I do know, is that your argument is ridiculous. You're talking about one of the winningest coaches in history, who has won at 3 different places, and you're saying he was either lucky, or that other people have done better in single,

    Never said he was lucky. I said he was fortunate. And there are many who did better. There have been a lot of coaches in the game.

    stand alone seasons, or that perhaps a coach WHO NEVER AGAIN COACHED A COLLEGE GAME, could have in fact been better, when he couldn't even run a clean program with the lens of the NCAA already on the school.

    Galen Hall ran a clean program. Second, if you get fired for allegations of cheating, you are pretty much blackballed. He DID coach at Penn State for any years, and did well. Third, I never said he would have done BETTER. I said Florida would have continued to win big. I believe that based on how well he did when he had a level playing field.

    Unless you believe him that all the allegations in 89 were false I guess... As he maintains. But he almost got UF kicked off TV. That's not a great head coach.

    I absolutely believe what he said. He was a great coach in every aspect - as a recruiter, player developer, gameday coach - and man. I was honored to have met him once, and was incredibly impressed by his patient, humble demeanor.

    Your argument, while it looks like it is backed by statistics, is really just you having taken up a lot of time listing opponents wins and losses like they actually tell the whole story. When they don't. Not even close.

    They tell infinitely more than "because I said so." At least I TRY to justify my points with facts. Legends become like fish stories over time, and Spurrier's story gets bigger and bigger as the years go by. We have Gator fans who believe that Florida was mediocre, or even a bottom feeder for decades prior to 1990.

    That's pretty insulting to many great teams that existed prior to that date. Spurrier did a great job at Florida, but he did NOT descend from the heavens to save us from a lifetime of mediocrity. He did not do the impossible at Duke, Florida or USCe. That is hagiography, not history.

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