Athiest to Theist

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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  2. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    that was a very powerful reading 2414-thanks for posting- I sent it to a friend who is struggling with what she believes
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  3. 108
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    Being fanatical on either side isn't healthy in my opinion, and going from one rigid belief system to the other, tells me he just goes all in.....until he doesn't.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  4. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    devout != fanatical
  5. 108
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    running a blog based on your personal religious or non-religious beliefs is a bit fanatical in my opinion
  6. MichiGator2002
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    Or isn't one to hedge and/or sit on the fence.
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  7. g8orbill
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    yeppers-damn splinters
  8. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Lot's of splinters in Hell for sure.
  9. 108
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    i wouldn't call giving an honest "i don't know", as "sitting on the fence"

    you says i need to know or any of it even matters?

    forgive me if i don't waste my time believing an ancient book, written by ancient men, for whom knows what intentions, during a time of very limited knowledge, that speaks of things that go against the known laws of nature, wrapped in the belief of an eternal heaven and fear of an eternal hell, that can be interpreted in many ways, and has been intentionally changed and manipulated since.

    we truly "know", next to nothing, yet I (this spec of dust in the universe), am supposed to know there is a omnipotent creator out there with a whole list of rules? :rolleyes:

    but yea, im just supposed to have faith right?
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  10. tegator80
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    One of my two religious mantras that I will espouse publicly: Religion is like just about everything in life, a complete lack of it is bad...but an excess of it is equally bad. JMHO
  11. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    You are one complicated "spec of dust" that appeared "in the universe" (so different yet so similar yet so dependent are males and females as well)...

  12. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Not meant as a challenge, but I am curious as to why a complete lack of religion is a bad thing?
  13. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    The key quote from the OP article:

    "In time I found it impossible to believe that the universe was created out of nothing. There was order, direction, and love. Those things all pointed to some larger, unfathomable consciousness. I realized I could not believe that human hearts and minds came into being randomly."

    Our universe operates on discernible, predictable laws. Where you have laws, there is a lawgiver.

    The intense complexity of life itself is, to me, the best argument for a creator.

    When you look at the faces on Mt. Rushmore, you know that they were not produced by random processes of erosion and fracture, but you intuitively recognize the aspects of design. How then can you look at any of the persons whose faces are on Mt. Rushmore and think that complex human life with thought, respiration and reproduction does not much moreso reflect design than the simple facial image? Where there is design, there is a designer.
  14. 108
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    I didn't say there wasn't a creator or an intelligent design, I said "I don't know"

    And if there is one, I certainly don't know his rules for eternal salvation if he has them.

    That's an honest answer, and maybe if there is a vengeful God of religion, he will forgive my honesty =]

    Either way, I'm not worried about it
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  15. 108
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    Tell me, how am I going feel those splinters with no physical senses?

    How am I going to mentally suffer without the experience of the opposite of hell?

    How do I even get there?

    Where is it?

    If you don't know* the answer to these questions, then I would humbly suggest to hold your beliefs about heaven/hell lightly


    *know - be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  16. tegator80
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    Religion at the very basic level of human conscience, is trying to make sense of our world. If those who are not devotional in their religious beliefs have at least a sense of comfort in a higher power, how are those people being harmed? On the other hand, if people are absolutely convinced that their birth is a biological coincidence and that at the end of their lives the sum total of their existence on the earth is to provide nutrients to simple life forms so that the elements can be recycled (read worm food), then moral hazard can be a very real end game.

    Believing in something more than your singular self is liberating to the vast majority of humans. And it has built civilizations since the dawn of time. Now whether they last based on religious beliefs is up for discussion but religion as the motivation for getting things up and running seem to be pretty compelling. JMHO
  17. 108
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    "moral hazard"?

    some of our most Godless countries have the lowest crime rates, where some of our most religious countries have some seriously questionable moral character

    doesn't take a belief in a higher power to know what hurts another, and have laws based in that, which coincide with morality
  18. wgbgator
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    This is a bit like saying that the complexity of motivations and causes of the Civil War make it obvious that one all-powerful person must have started it.
  19. tegator80
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    tegator80 Well-Known Member

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    I think you and I have differing opinions on what is "Godless." I presume you see an old guy with long hair, flowing robes, and a slightly angry attitude. I see a power that transcends human understanding. I would think if you saw what made up the structures in these "Godless" societies you would see what is definitely more than a coalition of individuals. And that takes a belief structure that is at the very least complementary to one another.
  20. 108
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    oh, i believe that we are all unified in some way, but is there a centralized being that powers it all, who knows....

    what makes more sense to me is Bill Hicks idea of one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...

    but either way, believing in a creator is quite logical given how we humans experience our own creation, but jumping from that, to thinking we know everything about this creator, including his guidelines for this heaven/hell concept, is quite a jump don't you say?

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