Are We Sure There's No "I" in Team?

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by ArtDeco, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. ArtDeco
    Offline

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Detroit Rock City
    Ratings Received:
    +387
    Had time to think about some scenarios today, and it dawned on me how one player can make a huge difference- in a team, a game, a coach's career, a school's reputation.
    Eli Manning- took a perennial loser to co-champions of the SEC West with eventual SEC champion LSU. Cotton Bowl appearance against OK State. After he left- 4-7 season for the Rebels, back to the scrap heap.
    Tim Tebow- two SEC Championships in 4 years. 2 National Titles in 4 years. After he leaves- mediocrity. The coach praised for revolutionary offense run out of town.
    Johnny Manziel- remember, prior to Johnny Football, A&M was a laughing stock. Mike Sherman run out of town. Now, the Aggies look like world beaters and Coach Sumlin looks like a genius.
    Of course, certain positions lend themselves to being a difference maker, based on the sheer number of touches. QB, RB, and to a lesser extent, WR tend to make the difference. Look at Timmons for UK, I think he touched the ball on every play.
    To be perfectly honest with you, this thread began with me thinking about Vernon Hargreaves. What a difference maker. Would we be where we are without him? And how much more of an impact will he make as he gets older? To me, it's truly amazing what difference one special person can have on a season.
  2. jisgator
    Offline

    jisgator Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,262
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +47
    What coach praised for revolutionary offense was run out of town?
  3. UFFL
    Offline

    UFFL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,602
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +267
    Yes we would still be 3-1 without VH3. he is good though. And 2010, it wasn't just because we lost Tim. We lost Major Wright, Aaron Hernandez, Spikes, Dunlap, and the list goes on.
  4. GATORAZ
    Offline

    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    13,923
    Likes Received:
    350
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,507
    I really like VH3 and think he has played great but we would win a lot of football games without him.

    Best example is Cam Newton what he did that year with the talent around him was amazing. One of the best years by an individual player in college football history.
  5. eastowest
    Offline

    eastowest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +163
    No...But there is a "ME"
    • Like Like x 1
  6. ArtDeco
    Offline

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,775
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Detroit Rock City
    Ratings Received:
    +387
    My argument would be that of all those playmakers, Tebow is the X Factor. He could win without them, not vice versa.
    Not saying Hargreaves is in that league, just saying I was reflecting on how every play he makes is a positive one, usually a momentum changing one in the right direction.
  7. GatorRade
    Offline

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,752
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +572
    I agree that Tebow is that kind of player. We lost Harvin, but kept Tebow and still won 13 games. Admittedly, Brantley maybe isn't the best test of this hypothesis, since I think most would place him toward the bottom of Florida QB lists, but there was a huge drop in offense in 2010.

    Vernon doesn't seem in the same stratosphere of importance though, especially with our CB depth. I think Easley's value is probably higher to the defense.
  8. iam4uf
    Offline

    iam4uf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +337
    I think that by having those once-in-a-lifetime players, other good recruits come to the school which results in a great team.
  9. Spurffelbow833
    Offline

    Spurffelbow833 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    8,977
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,293
    Must be getting what should have happened confused with what really happened.
  10. Norcaligator
    Offline

    Norcaligator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +216
    Couldn't resist:

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 1
  11. phillyblount
    Online

    phillyblount Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    The burg
    Ratings Received:
    +146
    Tebow- 1 natty

    Chris Leak- 1 natty
  12. demosthenes
    Offline

    demosthenes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,846
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Ratings Received:
    +566
    Disagree on the Tebow take. Tebow had his best year in 2007 and we still had numerous losses. He needed a stout defense. Also, our offense became quite a bit more pedestrian after Harvin left. Almost every statistical category was worse outside of kicking. When Tebow left it wasn't just him but AHern, Cooper, Nelson, Pouncey, etc and numerous experienced and talented defensive players. That being said, the QB position undoubtedly has the biggest impact on the outcome of a game and season.
  13. rball1313
    Offline

    rball1313 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +136
    If VH3 doesn't step out of bounds on int return we're 4-0 :) .
  14. Swamp_Swagger
    Offline

    Swamp_Swagger Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +19
    There's a "I" in Win
  15. gatorchamps0607
    Online

    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    39,980
    Likes Received:
    745
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ft. Myers, Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +1,710
    This is good :)
  16. g8t0rb8t
    Offline

    g8t0rb8t Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    Ratings Received:
    +10
    A nice bit of confirmation bias, but correlation is not causation. Heck, Eli Manning had better numbers in 2001 and still only won 7 games.
  17. G8R92
    Offline

    G8R92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,150
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +296
    Just examining the first few parts, albeit from an NFL standpoint, Eli is stinking it up this year (and did last year as well) with Coach Coughlin about to lose the locker room as Justin Tuck threatens to punch anyone in the mouth that turns on the coach. Just two years removed from a Super Bowl. If you look at recent offseason moves that impacted the team, I think that while one person can make a difference, it takes a talented team to execute their respective tasks or the team fails.
  18. deathroll
    Online

    deathroll Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    192
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +513
    Never seen this; nice.
  19. GatorRade
    Offline

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,752
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +572
    Perhaps I should have stated that I didn't think that Tebow was the most important player for defensive performance. And I agree that we don't have any data of removing Tebow in isolation, but the same is true for Harvin. You correctly point out that offensive output dropped after Harvin's departure, but neglect that Harvin/non-Tebow offense in 2006 was also not stupendous. Using the S&P ratings here, we get this pattern:

    Year.........Offense rank
    2005............23
    2006............7
    2007............1
    2008............1
    2009............9
    2010............50

    So sure, the offense was better before Harvin left, but it was also worse before and after Tebow started. Like you said, there really isn't a position comparable to QB for influence on the game.
  20. GatorRade
    Offline

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    6,752
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +572
    Correlation doesn't mean there is no causation either, but it sort of sounds like you don't even agree that there is a correlation.

Share This Page