Are We Sure There's No "I" in Team?

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by ArtDeco, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. ArtDeco
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    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

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    Had time to think about some scenarios today, and it dawned on me how one player can make a huge difference- in a team, a game, a coach's career, a school's reputation.
    Eli Manning- took a perennial loser to co-champions of the SEC West with eventual SEC champion LSU. Cotton Bowl appearance against OK State. After he left- 4-7 season for the Rebels, back to the scrap heap.
    Tim Tebow- two SEC Championships in 4 years. 2 National Titles in 4 years. After he leaves- mediocrity. The coach praised for revolutionary offense run out of town.
    Johnny Manziel- remember, prior to Johnny Football, A&M was a laughing stock. Mike Sherman run out of town. Now, the Aggies look like world beaters and Coach Sumlin looks like a genius.
    Of course, certain positions lend themselves to being a difference maker, based on the sheer number of touches. QB, RB, and to a lesser extent, WR tend to make the difference. Look at Timmons for UK, I think he touched the ball on every play.
    To be perfectly honest with you, this thread began with me thinking about Vernon Hargreaves. What a difference maker. Would we be where we are without him? And how much more of an impact will he make as he gets older? To me, it's truly amazing what difference one special person can have on a season.
  2. jisgator
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    jisgator Well-Known Member

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    What coach praised for revolutionary offense was run out of town?
  3. UFFL
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    UFFL Well-Known Member

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    Yes we would still be 3-1 without VH3. he is good though. And 2010, it wasn't just because we lost Tim. We lost Major Wright, Aaron Hernandez, Spikes, Dunlap, and the list goes on.
  4. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    I really like VH3 and think he has played great but we would win a lot of football games without him.

    Best example is Cam Newton what he did that year with the talent around him was amazing. One of the best years by an individual player in college football history.
  5. eastowest
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    eastowest Well-Known Member

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    No...But there is a "ME"
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  6. ArtDeco
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    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

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    My argument would be that of all those playmakers, Tebow is the X Factor. He could win without them, not vice versa.
    Not saying Hargreaves is in that league, just saying I was reflecting on how every play he makes is a positive one, usually a momentum changing one in the right direction.
  7. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Tebow is that kind of player. We lost Harvin, but kept Tebow and still won 13 games. Admittedly, Brantley maybe isn't the best test of this hypothesis, since I think most would place him toward the bottom of Florida QB lists, but there was a huge drop in offense in 2010.

    Vernon doesn't seem in the same stratosphere of importance though, especially with our CB depth. I think Easley's value is probably higher to the defense.
  8. iam4uf
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    iam4uf Well-Known Member

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    I think that by having those once-in-a-lifetime players, other good recruits come to the school which results in a great team.
  9. Spurffelbow833
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    Spurffelbow833 Well-Known Member

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    Must be getting what should have happened confused with what really happened.
  10. Norcaligator
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    Norcaligator Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't resist:

    [​IMG]
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  11. phillyblount
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    phillyblount Well-Known Member

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    Tebow- 1 natty

    Chris Leak- 1 natty
  12. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Disagree on the Tebow take. Tebow had his best year in 2007 and we still had numerous losses. He needed a stout defense. Also, our offense became quite a bit more pedestrian after Harvin left. Almost every statistical category was worse outside of kicking. When Tebow left it wasn't just him but AHern, Cooper, Nelson, Pouncey, etc and numerous experienced and talented defensive players. That being said, the QB position undoubtedly has the biggest impact on the outcome of a game and season.
  13. rball1313
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    rball1313 Premium Member

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    If VH3 doesn't step out of bounds on int return we're 4-0 :) .
  14. Swamp_Swagger
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    Swamp_Swagger Active Member

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    There's a "I" in Win
  15. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    This is good :)
  16. g8t0rb8t
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    g8t0rb8t Active Member

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    A nice bit of confirmation bias, but correlation is not causation. Heck, Eli Manning had better numbers in 2001 and still only won 7 games.
  17. G8R92
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    G8R92 Well-Known Member

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    Just examining the first few parts, albeit from an NFL standpoint, Eli is stinking it up this year (and did last year as well) with Coach Coughlin about to lose the locker room as Justin Tuck threatens to punch anyone in the mouth that turns on the coach. Just two years removed from a Super Bowl. If you look at recent offseason moves that impacted the team, I think that while one person can make a difference, it takes a talented team to execute their respective tasks or the team fails.
  18. deathroll
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    deathroll Well-Known Member

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    Never seen this; nice.
  19. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I should have stated that I didn't think that Tebow was the most important player for defensive performance. And I agree that we don't have any data of removing Tebow in isolation, but the same is true for Harvin. You correctly point out that offensive output dropped after Harvin's departure, but neglect that Harvin/non-Tebow offense in 2006 was also not stupendous. Using the S&P ratings here, we get this pattern:

    Year.........Offense rank
    2005............23
    2006............7
    2007............1
    2008............1
    2009............9
    2010............50

    So sure, the offense was better before Harvin left, but it was also worse before and after Tebow started. Like you said, there really isn't a position comparable to QB for influence on the game.
  20. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Correlation doesn't mean there is no causation either, but it sort of sounds like you don't even agree that there is a correlation.

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