Are vegetarians crazy?

Discussion in 'Gator Country Health and Fitness' started by LeafUF, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. ATL_Gator
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    ATL_Gator Well-Known Member

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    From what I understand and have read... "The China Study" is just wrong. Filled with errors and omissions. At it's best, I see "The China Study" as an example of incomplete scientific and statistical analysis. At worst, I view Campbell as an all out liar advancing his personal agenda by blinding people with complicated numbers and statistics while leaving out the parts that destroy his theory.
  2. ATL_Gator
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    ATL_Gator Well-Known Member

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    I would mention that I don't disagree with eating more fruits, veggies, and nuts over meats and grains.

    In fact, it is my personal theory (with no scientific evidence to back it up other than my own looks at nutritional content)... out of veggies, fruits, and nuts... Veggies should be consumed the MOST. In general, veggies contain a lot of nutrients and deliver it with less sugar (and calories from sugar).
  3. LeafUF
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    LeafUF Well-Known Member

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    Same as ATL, I dont have any problem with people trying to eat more fruits, veggies and nuts and less meats. Just dont like the China Study as your justification, the science behind it is so bad other scientists are embarrassed. You can find plenty of people critiquing the study on the internet and its just not pretty.

    I actually watched a Ted talk recently by someone who basically said he would be a week day vegetarian because he couldnt imagine ever eating his last burger. So he was vegetarian M-F then if he wanted meat on the weekends he would have it or not. He also implored the audience to try removing meat from their diet just one day a week.
  4. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    It's true, eating more fruits and veggies probably (probably) won't kill anybody. But I must say, based on the 72-hour food journals I get from my fat clients, fruits and veggies aren't a problem. They also tend to eat less red meat than I do. Additionally, some take various 'health supplements.'

    And they're fat, feel lousy and often have various and sundry medical conditions.
  5. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    It would be nice if they could show causation

    I am generally a vegetarian due to me being raised a vegetarian, and anxiety has been an issue for me

    Though it was also an issue for my father when he was younger and he wasn't a vegetarian
  6. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Almost everything in this paragraph is incorrect.
  7. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    But in short, soy does not raise estrogen in men.
  8. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    This is another myth. I believe there's a 4 year difference in average life expectancy beyond childhood. In 1900 the average life expectancy was 74 if you survived childhood, I think it's like 78 now.
  9. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    Even 'eating more fruits and vegetables' is probably overrated. The practically venerated DASH Diet yields DECIDEDLY modest improvements in blood pressure.

    Bottom-line: eat more fruits and veggies ... if you find them tasty.
  10. bluegrassg8r
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    bluegrassg8r New Member

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    I can state with complete accuracy that my own vegetables are better tasting than any I can buy from stores in my area. We do have a large Amish/Mennonite community who tend to grow heirlooms in their gardens ( which they sell) and they too are really outstanding to eat raw or cook with.
    I buy local chickens, pork, and beef for the simple reason that they taste better, have better fat ratios for flavor and marbling, and make better stocks. Our eggs also make waaayyyyyy better cakes and pies- the yolks are larger and richer.
  11. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    "Are vegetarians crazy?" In a word: Nuts!
  12. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    o&b,

    The wife has a health degree and won't eat soy and won't let me eat it either. Here is a link to soy info and a link to the monk story. Soy lowers testosterone in men.

    http://www.optimumchoices.com/Soy.htm
  13. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Mama, that was answered a long time ago: The chicken according to my higher authority,

    24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth every kind of animal--livestock, small animals, and wildlife." And so it was.

    25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to reproduce more of its own kind. And God saw that it was good.
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Your wife is wrong here. Soy definitively has no effect on testosterone levels in healthy men:

    1 Hamilton-Reeves, J.M., et al. (2009). Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: Results of a meta-analysis. Fertil Steril. In press.

    2 Celec, P., et al. (2007). Increased one week soybean consumption affects spatial abilities but not sex hormone status in men. Int J Food Sci Nutr. 58:424-428.

    3 Alsio, J., et al. (20009). Impact of nandrolone decanoate on gene expression in endocrine systems related to the adverse effects of anabolic androgenic steroids. Basic Clin Pharmacol Toxicol. In press.
  15. Chirogator
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    Chirogator Member

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    Regardless of whether soy negatively effects hormonal status or not (which I think it absolutely can), its an inferior food choice in terms of fatty acid status and protein content compared to an abundant amount of foods that should make up your dietary choices.
  16. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    Chiro is correct, soy isn't that great as a food to start with.

    On the study's O& B posted...

    Paid for by the soy growers of America... what type of soy did they use, the good type of Japanese Tofu that takes years to ferment the toxic enzyme inhibitors out of it, or the kind that is causing problems.

    Phytoestrogens, genistein and daidzein mimic hormone estrogen in the body. This is where the problems with estrogen start.

    Soy acts more like a drug than a food in the body. The industry has a lot of their own study's from their hired scientists. You can post a thousand of these "study's" and I will continue to believe those who take years to make a product out of something they know will harm you if eaten without taking the time to do it right.

    Phytic acids, enzyme inhibitors, haemaggluttin, and trypsin inhibitors are all in the soy you eat and all are pretty much poisons.

    Trypsin inhibiters can cause pancreatic cancer and the explosion of breast cancer should be the sparrow in the coal mine for some of you.

    If it hasn't been fermented for "two summers" soy has not had time to turn itself into beneficial for the body. Five or six years is ideal in the Japanese way of making soy products healthy.
  17. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    :laugh::laugh:

    Because she doesn't want you growing girly ta-tas. Smart wife.
  18. Dreamliner
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    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    When guys used to ask me how to get big chests while slimming their waists at the same time, I used to recommend soy for man-boobs and liposuction for the waist reduction.
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    No, they're not. At least look at them.

    No, they don't. Phytoestrogens are not estrogen, period. Further more, if you had something that "mimicked" estrogen in your body, you'd end up with more testosterone. That's how the pituitary works. In fact, that's what clomid does - mimics estrogen so your body produces less, causing your body to think it has more estrogen and produce testosterone.

    More importantly, there has never been a study that showed that phytoestrogen intake induces higher levels of estrogen in men. Not once! In fact, the studies show it has absolutely no effect on blood hormone levels.

    Ah yes, throw away studies - or "study's," sorry - and data in lieu of wive's tales. Good thinking!

    The Japanese eat fermented soy, but they also regularly eat it straight from the pod.
  20. Chirogator
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    Chirogator Member

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    Why the die hard defense of soy? Even if you do not believe that it can promote estrogenic effects, you still cannot argue for it in lieu of countless other foods (fruits, veggies, grass fed beef, fish, coconut, grass fed dairy, etc.), or that it is not high in pro-inflammatory Omega 6 fatty acids, or that it is not GMO 95+% of the time. I could possibly argue occasional consumption of it 40+ years ago when it was not GMO and our diets were better in general, but you're hard pressed to not find soy in some form in a majority of our food source these days so I cannot make an argument to add any extra soy to our diets. Plus, tying back to the original title of the thread, many vegetarians claim that their way of eating is "sustainable," but if you actually investigate the farming practices of the mega crop that is soy, it's yet another reason to avoid it altogether.

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