Arab Summer - Egyptian Revolution

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by G8trGr8t, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    Odd that I see no discussion on the pending/sprouting Egyptian civil war.

    While reading some articles about it yesterday I was reminded that the brotherhood was responsible for the assassination of Anwar Sadat and multiple other terror attacks around Egypt not that long ago.

    I do not see them going quietly and I was surprised at the force used in clearing the crowds. I expected loud music 24 hours, establish a corridor and starve them out, etc instead of bulldozers and burning tents. Brotherhood is going to go underground and we are going to have al Qaeda in Egypt.

    I do believe that if elections were held today that the brotherhood would loose badly as the broad support from moderates that they received is largely gone after their attempt to turn Egypt into a muslim theocracy.

    What happens when a SAM discussed in Benghazi thread sinks a supertanker in the canal??

    Thoughts?

    What should US do? What should we have done differently??
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  2. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    If they do go underground, it will be easier to fight them with the help/support of a popular Egyptian government rather than with a Mubarek-like figure in charge.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    But only one of those scenarios is actually a realistic outcome in terms of who has power in Egypt. We, the interests of the United States, were better off before this whole comedy began.
  4. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    In those terms then, we were probably better off when Saddam was in power too. Or countless other unpopular governments that directly or indirectly served our geopolitical or economic interests at various times.
  5. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Whether you approve of the target selection (which you don't) or the half-assed, half-brained notion of real time "nation building" and politically fueled idea that we weren't occupying Iraq (which I don't), deposing Hussein was at least done with a generally coherent notion that it would give us a big bill board saying "Great Satan here, free swipes at the Great Satan!" and inviting all the kooks and freaks from throughout the region to come at us where we could kill them. Turned out we lacked the political stomach for actually carrying that out, either. But at least there was an underlying rationale to which one could marry the advancement of an American interest. Or, if that doesn't work for you, we could rationalize all that oil we never did get around to stealing.

    Helping Mubarek's fall seemed to only be something this administration was interested because there was absolutely no way one could turn it over or shake it and get some benefit to America to fall out of it. It was as if that fact alone actually added value to it as a policy.
  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Ok. The main difference I see is Egypt: almost 0 American lives lost, Iraq: 3000+ lives lost, over whatever dubious or well-intentioned motives were involved.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    So, we can worsen America's interests nationally for the loss of no American (military) lives (even the high profile gang rape wasn't an American! Winning!), that will automatically win in the argument for you.
  8. gatordowneast
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    Send Obama over there. One muslim to another...let him man up to those brothers. I thought everything would be rosy in the middle east if we elected him?
  9. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Personally, I'd argue that proping up an unpopular government with military or financial aid also worsens America's interests nationally.
  10. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    By all means, I'd love to hear that argument.
  11. Row6
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    What a fantasy. We didn't wear the "kick me hard" sign on our back in Iraq as a planned policy. That was the excuse after the v parades in Baghdad were cancelled.

    BTW, the parade through Cairo with a tarred and feathered Mubarak was happening whether we got involved or not. We just tried to pretend we v were part of it.
  12. MichiGator2002
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    The strategic concept was dinner table conversation amongst pretty much every news engaged person I know before that invasion had even taken place, but okay.

    Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Certainly nobody who might have otherwise come to his aid -- diplomatically or otherwise -- was made more likely to do so when the US basically said "eff Mubarak".

    But let's adopt your premise, it would have happened either way. Doesn't that sort of mean your defense here is that we didn't actually have a policy we were enacting, it was just us frontrunning? Fairweather foreign policy, is it?
  13. Row6
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    So you already anticipated that the victory parades in Baghdad weren't going to happen and we were in for years of street fighting and sectarian violence?

    Brilliant!!!

    We didn't control events in Cairo then or now. Wake up and smell the coffee or enlist - your choice.
  14. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    BO is a HUGE Marsi fan. He's probably pleased that the "SECULAR" muslim brotherhood is being as peaceful as they are....oh wait a minute.
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  15. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I don't know who this Marsi is, but I do know I'm a huge Morrissey fan.
  16. dadx4
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    dadx4 Well-Known Member

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    lol, the last Brotherhood Prez that Egypt had...Morzi? I am trying here man. :yes:
  17. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Oh, Morsi. :grin:
  18. HallGator
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    Screw Egypt, screw Syria, screw Iran, screw Iraq, screw Libya and in general screw all of those backassward ignorant sons of biatches in that area.
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  19. G8trGr8t
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    major car bomb in Hezbollah stronghold in Beirut. If hez is going to fight in Syria sunni's are going to take civil war to lebanon
  20. Row6
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    Illuminating article:

    "Exclusive - West warned Egypt's Sisi to the end: don't do it

    PARIS (Reuters) - Western allies warned Egypt's military leaders right up to the last minute against using force to crush protest sit-ins by supporters of the ousted Islamist president Mohamed Mursi, arguing they could ill afford the political and economic damage.

    A violent end to a six-week standoff between Mursi's Muslim Brotherhood and the armed forces that toppled Egypt's first freely elected president seemed likely once the new authorities declared last week that foreign mediation had failed.

    But the United States and the European Union continued to send coordinated messages to army commander General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi and Interim Vice President Mohamed ElBaradei during the four-day Eid al-Fitr Muslim holiday that ended on Sunday, pleading for a negotiated settlement, Western diplomats said.

    "We had a political plan that was on the table, that had been accepted by the other side (the Muslim Brotherhood)," said EU envoy Bernardino Leon, who co-led the mediation effort with U.S. Deputy Secretary of State William Burns.


    http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-west-warned-egypts-sisi-end-dont-195719007.html
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2013

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