Another Senior IRS Official takes the Fifth Amendment

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by MastaG8r, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. MichaelJoeWilliamson
    Offline

    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,820
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +497
    I remember her. Attorney Gate? Fair example. I am not aware the Bush ever addressed it. He should have.

    That said, the US attorneys that were fired were employed "at the pleasure of the President." All US Attorney's can be fired for any reason. Firing them was not illegal, nor were there any substantive accusations of illegality.
  2. PSGator66
    Offline

    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +917
    mdgator05 - Hang it up.
  3. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,902
    Likes Received:
    642
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +2,324
    So the head of one of the most powerful and (with the basically unchecked power to be) oppressive agencies known to man, takes the 5th and then resigns.

    But there is nothing to see, so move along and have a happy, happy day.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    While clearly there is a law that could have been broken in the case in the OP, what specific law has the IRS been accused of substantively breaking in the targeting of political sounding names for further scrutiny in the granting of tax exemption status?
  5. fredsanford
    Offline

    fredsanford VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,335
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,693
    Under this specter of political witch hunt from the RNC, I don't blame them for taking the 5th.
  6. wargunfan
    Offline

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    Ratings Received:
    +189
    Well, if the paper weight in the White House will order his employees to cooperate with Congress and stop covering their a$$es by invoking the 5th we'll find out.
  7. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    Neither of the people being discussed were the head of the IRS.
  8. G8trGr8t
    Offline

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    15,172
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +2,829
    She resigned because she was about to be fired and for good measure she now gets to keep her pension which she would have lost if fired
    • Like Like x 1
  9. MichaelJoeWilliamson
    Offline

    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,820
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +497
    There are several that have been discussed ad nauseum. I will invite you to investigate them at your leisure.

    And the OP was about an official of the IRS taking the fifth. If she broke the law, then the IRS broke the law. QED.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    Well since they have been discussed so extensively, you should be able to provide the specific law, not IRS policy but law, that was broken. I invite you to provide them. It shouldn't be too hard with these extensive substantive discussions.

    So by breaking a law, the organization for which you work breaks the law? The VP office broke the law when Scooter Libby broke the law?
  11. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    Is there a law against targeting groups for additional investigation based on their name? Again, not IRS policy but an actual law?
  12. fastsix
    Offline

    fastsix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ratings Received:
    +1,319
    Can you be ordered to give up your Fifth Amendment rights?
  13. Lawdog88
    Offline

    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    30,902
    Likes Received:
    642
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +2,324

    Right. I was referencing of course, the news of yesterday.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. wargunfan
    Offline

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    Ratings Received:
    +189
    Is there a functional difference between justice delayed and justice denied? Is it the business of the IRS to be foot soldiers for an Obama reelection campaign? The targeting of conservative groups is malfeasance and dereliction of duty and everyone connected with it should be fired. Lois Lerner saw the handwriting on the wall and jumped ship. Her troubles are not over. She may very well have a prison cell in her future
    If the political labels on these characters were changed from D to R you would be squealing out the other side of your partisan mouth.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. candymanfromgc
    Offline

    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,506
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +494
    Her 50k a year pension could be with held. If she broke the law and or abused her office it could be taken away.
  16. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    So I will ask you the same question I asked MJ: what specific law did she break? Again, violating IRS policy can lose you a job working for the IRS, but does not result in jail time. That requires breaking a specific law. So what specific law would that be?
  17. northgagator
    Offline

    northgagator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    7,940
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Metro Atlanta Ga Gwinnet County
    Ratings Received:
    +131

    Tryi googling the 14th Amendment and the equal protection under the law clause.
  18. FlyingGatorII
    Online

    FlyingGatorII Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,915
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +739
    Only an Obama supporter could hide behind this. She can be directed by her superiors to cooperate fully or be terminated, including termination of her pension rights. BTW, you do understand she gave up her 5th Amendment rights already right? I hope she comes to her senses and realizes she will be hung out to dry by those in power and cuts a deal to expose them. If she doesn't then put her in jail for refusing to testify after waiving her 5th Amendment rights.
  19. MichaelJoeWilliamson
    Offline

    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,820
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +497
    Don't be dense. When a person that works for an organization and USES THE OFFICE OF THAT ORGANIZATION to break the law, then the organization is subject to legal penalties. That standard is well established.

    Libby lied quite on his own.

    As far as which laws might or might not have been broken, here is a discussion involving over 2 million hits

    At the very least, lying to congress is against the law.
  20. mdgator05
    Offline

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    290
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +969
    Do people typically go to jail for violations of the 14th Amendment? Do we try and convict people in a criminal manner for a violation of this Amendment? I am pretty sure this is more of a civil matter than a criminal one. See my response to MJW following.

    In addition, I am not sure there is a great case here, as every organization that received extra scrutiny on the right eventually received tax exempt status, while that is not true of those organization screened in a similar manner on the left. You might be able to argue that the process of name screening violates the 14th Amendment, as right-wing organizations have more easily screened names, but that seems like it might be somewhat precedent setting.

    Of course, not a Constitutional lawyer, so there might already be cases on it.

Share This Page