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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by OklahomaGator, Sep 2, 2014.
How's that democracy in Iraq workin' out that Dubya put in place?
LOL...the man who authorized the initial unwarranted invasion holds no responsibility for the current crisis? ReallY??????? Really??
Except that I formed in Syria after 0 refused to give the more moderate opposition to Assad any support while allowing Assad to defecate all over his red line.
And 0 continued too support Maliki while Maliki excluded the sunni tribes in Iraq
And then 0 refused to decimate the nice neat columns of Is men and equipment while they rode down the highway to Mosul
Other than that (and I could easily keep adding more instances of failures to lead) it must be Bush fault. VJ tells 0 everything is somebody else's fault, he parrots it, and the lemmings lap it up.
Lousy. 0 kept supporting Maliki with our $$$$ while. Maliki continued To destroy any form of democracy
Where did I say that? Im not a W fan. (As a thorough reading of this thread will inform you)
I was responding to a specific post blaming Bush for how Obama is handling things now.
Do you guys on the extreme left raise your kids this way? "Yeah buddy, you can cheat on your history test because the expectation was raised by previous students who did it."
I mean its OK for Coach Champ to have another 4-8 season this year, since Urban left a train wreck,,,,right?
See how silly that all sounds? Eventually You stand for your own values and you make a difference. That goes for parents, coaches and POTUS.
the president, no matter who he is and no matter what he does, cannot insure that nothing bad happens to Americans anywhere in the world.
I personally think its high time some of the ME boys started dying to protect their own interests. What bothers me most is the Saudis and other oil barons don't seem particularly worried about ISIS. When they get scared, they will come hollering for help. Since the world economy is so dependent on ME oil, we will be forced to help. I personally think most of the ME military is complete garbage. ISIS fighters are all too happy to die for their cause. ME military that I have seen is more interested in living the good life and know the US will step to their defense.
Agree. I wasn't the one making that point.
I am not going to say that President Obama couldn't have done more to (especially in retrospect) prevent the formation of ISIL but that doesn't mean without having destroyed the power-structure in Iraq that they wouldn't have expanded there and HAVE to be stopped because they can't be allowed to access their vast oil riches and become a true state.
That said, I was just responding to a comment and personally I don't care about the blame game. I'm more one that likes to deal with the real and the real is that ISIL now needs to be dealt with. What could have been done to prevent this situation is a discussion that needs to be had amongst other people with more knowledge than I and after we have won.
Let's start figuring out ways to get off of ME oil and a lot of our problems go up "in smoke".
is it that hard to just blame the people actually responsible for this barbarian act?
honestly I wish we could just drop a large bomb on this whole area, but would kill a ton of innocent people...
Nah. We've got to get all partisan with it up in here. It makes us feel better.
@108 That's no fun...who would we yell at on a message board????
I agree with the substance of your post about who should pay to exterminate the infestation, but to characterize ISIS simply as a "virulent strain of Political Islam," misperceives and / or underestimates ISIS' actors as merely political, when they virulently and violently self-identify as religious zealots first, last, and foremost, and who think they are on a mission inspired, approved, and demanded by their god.
Political interests are second tier and subordinated to serve the true purpose of the mission: conquest and death, to all infidels.
sorry but ME oil impacts global economies that we are dependent on. We actually don't import much from ME anymore.
that said, we could probably eliminate our oil imports if we aggressively pursued nat gas trucks, fleet vehicles, and trains and got houses off of fuel oil and on nat gas
pathetic that we are the only industrial country on the planet without a comprehensive energy policy
And when we finally realize what you just wrote, then and only then will we be able to address the problem. This, unfortunately, is not a problem you can talk your way out of. There comes a time when two sides are so polarized there is nothing to do but fight it out. The question is, we certainly have the capacity, but do we have the will?
I am beginning to redefine the word "innocent". I tell you what, if it comes down to whose "innocents" are the first to go, it shouldn't be ours.
agreed except that the power structure in Iraq would be present today if Maliki had not cut off the kurds and the sunni from the ranks of the army and from the funding sources required to keep them employed and faithful.
Maliki could not have continued to exist without US aid and 0 refused to use that aid as a tool to make Maliki stop his divisive actions.
The awakening that defeated AQ in Iraq was proof positive of how the moderate sunni in Iraq could be effectively incorporated into the power structure that would have helped continue to stabilize Iraq and foster the democracy. Maliki cut all funding to the Kurds and the sunni and 0 continues to send US $$. Major mistake. Not different from his red line in Syria, he made several demands and several threats to Maliki but did not follow through on any of them while continuing to send the $$.
In that sense, the failure of the democracy is squarely on 0 as he had the means and methods to neuter Maliki and foster the all inclusive government but he refused to use them. Failure to act often has much more serious consequences than acting and we have a pres who fails to act repeatedly creating power vacuums everywhere he goes.
The failure of their democracy was going to happen as soon as we were not there to keep order. And the country is not worth the money, time, and lives it would have taken to keep it that way.
The members of ISIS are evil. They are committing horrific acts, and no one else is to blame. Is there any doubt who is cutting heads off, killing children, killing Christians, killing members of other sects of Islam, etc., etc., etc.
I assume that no one really believes, as previously stated on this board, that the journalists are at fault or/or do not feel sympathy for them.
The question is what do we do? As has been said on many occasions, "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." There are no easy answers, but evil must be confronted.
Does anyone really believe that ISIS is not already here? When will there be another 9/11 or other horrific acts committed in our country?