Another failed green energy company that we gave $69 million loan

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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  2. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    That would be the taxpayers of MS.

    "If KiOR defaults on its loan, the administration of then-Gov. Haley Barbour would be responsible for more than $95 million in taxpayer money spent on failed green-energy ventures."
  3. shelbygt350
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    shelbygt350 Well-Known Member

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    Governments would be better suited to spend taxpayer money on green pea soup for the needy. Seriously.
  4. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Damned Republican Governors and their Ponzi schemes!
  5. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    it makes no difference who authorized it- just have to keep asking ourselves why they fall for it
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  6. cjgator76
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    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

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    Look on the bright side. $69 mill is lunch money in the overall scheme of things.
  7. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    This was from last year. It is clearly written I from an advocate's pov (but at least experts in the field)but does give a counter argument to all of the negatives that people harp on.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary...es-Obama-made-smart-investments-in-green-tech

    Long term the small losses against the larger portfolio would seem more than a wise investment in all of the benefits it will bring, but it has to be looked at for what it is.
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  8. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    In the history of everything that ever worked, there was a time when it didn't.

    Should we have just stuck with the horse drawn carriages and kerosene lamps? I'm sure a lot of money was wasted on automobile production and electric lights.
  9. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    The venture capitalist market is available to fund private companies that are on the verge of success. Gov't has an avenue to support the advancement of technology--it's called university research.

    When gov't gets involved in handing out money to private companies, the potential for abuse and conflict of interest is great, as in the case in handing Solyndra hundreds of millions of dollars when their business plan involved spending $200 million on a conference room and their CEO was a major campaign bundler for the president (and the CEO's wife, I believe, worked in the White House as an advisor to the president). Republicans are much more likely than democrats to have business experience, and therefore they are more likely to understand "conflict of interest" and other complex concepts.

    The business going under is just one aspect of the failure of handing companies money. Gov't handouts (with few, if any strings attached) makes companies lazy. It makes them think that success is based on marketing, not quality or customers. They just need to market themselves to their gov't bag man to get their next loan. Look at the failure of the GM bailout. GM killed 13 people and covered it up to keep appearances up for their gov't loans. They still don't know how to make a quality car, and will be asking for another bailout during the next recession. Who knows how much stronger the green industries would be without gov't handouts? The companies that focused primarily on quality and customers (as opposed to marketing to their gov't man) were punished by getting smaller (or no) loans. Those were the companies that could have taken the industry forward. But they can't compete with a company that is fully financed by the U.S. gov't. And gov't involvement will absolutely scare away venture capitalists.

    If gov't wants to get involved in supporting industries, then the gov't should buy their products, not hand them money.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2014
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  10. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Corporate welfare by any other name. This group is probably considered part of the ever shrinking "private sector" in this country.
  11. nolagator
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    nolagator Active Member

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    Who's money, Ford & Edison?
  12. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Government can kick start something in a way that private capital can't.

    Energy independence comes with a price.
  13. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    if obama was not opposed to drilling we could have energy independence in the short short

    and a booming economy
  14. philobeddoe
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    philobeddoe Well-Known Member

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    Really .... is that why you only find the federal government active in seed, early stage, and later stage investing? There are no personal funds, "friends and family", angels, or VCs involved?

    How about debt & equity crowdfunding ..... is it only the federal government involved in those campaigns?

    Actually, in my personal and professional experience - over 30 years in 4 start ups (3 successful exits) and 2 turn-arounds .... the only thing government does is "f things up" as a regulatory impediment to the creative process.

    [BTW .... have you ever been offered a bribe by a government "official" to locate a processing facility in their county?]
  15. nolagator
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    nolagator Active Member

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    Here is a man who sounds like he lived it. The more you are around it the more you realize the only way to fix it is to have less of it.
  16. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Oil is a commodity. We'll never be "independent" with an oil-based economy.

    Increased domestic production would be good for the economy.
  17. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    oil, natural gas
  18. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    We are on a path to energy independence, at current rates we are twenty years away but making good progress. It's why WTI trades so much cheaper than Brent crude.
    As a note, we are also ahead of China right now in clean energy which is great news, long term that is far more important because that's where the patents and the oil like monopolies will be. Not being dependent on China or anyone else is critical to our future, and why the government is getting involved.
  19. shelbygt350
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    shelbygt350 Well-Known Member

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    Please explain, so I can understand it better, that "govt can kick start...etc"
  20. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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