An Alabama's family experience with the ACA

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    I didn't agree with the debt default argument that the Tea Party members were making. I do think their holding the debt ceiling over Obama's head was a good thing, but they tried to negotiate for the wrong thing (repealing Obamacare). Credit Boehner with incompetence on this one. Obviously, even Senator Obama was very supportive of debt control once upon a time. Debt ceiling shutdowns are actually not a bad thing. Democrats have done it more than republicans have. The last time a shutdown occurred for anywhere near the length of the last one was Gingrich laying the wood on Clinton, just before the economy took off.

    The credit rating downgrade was due as much to Obama's unwillingness to negotiate and even show any leadership on cutting spending as it was the "threats" that the republicans were making. And, the level of the national debt as a percentage of the GDP was also a huge factor (if not the primary factor). And that was largely due to Obama's unwillingness to reduce federal spending during hard times, and Obama's holding the economy hostage for two years while he worked on health care ("never let a good crisis go to waste").
  2. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    when they held the debt ceiling over obama's head, the second time, it kind of backfired didn't it?

    is it wrong i was smiling?


    i suppose we can ignore those red state math scores, and attribute what you said about conservatives being better in math, to just 'humor'.

    ;)
  3. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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  4. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Reagan officials might have worked on internet issues (which, fwiw was already available in the military and at select research universities since the 1960s; it was called "arpanet" back then) but it's an absurd to say that "Reagan made the internet boom possible." If anyone did, it was Gore. That's right, Al Gore. He not only had the foresight about the internet for everyone, by most accounts, he worked tirelessly on this issue for many years while he was a senator and as VP. Vince Cerf and other internet "founding fathers" are on record crediting Gore as the main politician playing a key legislative role on numerous fronts. So no, it wasn't Reagan that made the boom possible, at least not in any significant way. Speaking of which, with respect to your claims about deregulation, history shows it to be a bit different as well. Deregulation started with Carter, not Reagan, beginning with the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978, in banking with HR 4998:1979, and in decontrol of oil prices, of which Reagan took advantage when he took office.

    As for the malaise from inflation & oil prices etc... we all know Carter could have done better, but contrary to public opinion, an objective, retrospective look at his record shows it to be better and more substantive than public perception suggests. Reagan's acting skills and sunny disposition contrasted well against Carter's unassuming demeanor and lingering malaise from the 70s, and sure some folk felt good about it, but let's not forget that his record is not flawless, not by any stretch. When he cut taxes in yr1, he also followed it with 11 tax increases, which likely helped lead to a deeper recession and unemployment spike (staying above 10.0 for nearly 10 straight mos. during yrs 2 & 3). It wasn't until Reagan's 2nd term, and even then until nearly the end of his 6th year did unemployment actually dip below 7.0. He also grew the size of government and debt, had Iran Contra, Beirut, and a host of other issues that reflected poorly on him... But my goal here isn't to condemn Reagan, it is only to show that his presidency wasn't nearly rosy as you think. Heck, when it comes to public opinion about presidents, he wasn't even as popular as the 90s blue skirt chaser in Chief.

    And as for our great economy, the crisis in 2007 was bipartisan and historical. Many fathers and mothers to this mess, including Reagan (got trickle-down economics???). As for tort reform, that is largely a talking a point at best not a substantive fix. Pubs have not addressed comprehensive reform, though they did pass an unfunded Medicare Part D. But the point about Obamacare is that you don't have a crystal ball so saying it failed makes no sense, since folks are getting signed up, and the poor are already covered by medicaid. You are talking about working and middle class folk without previously having had health insurance for which this is going to help. Maybe it will need some bigger fixes, likely, but I do know that the pubs haven't tried to control costs while getting people covered and that claims about aca having failed are way too premature.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
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  5. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    Smile if you like. Won't make any difference. The debt ceiling issue is long forgotten by the American people. The 2014 election will be on the success or failure of Obamacare. Right now, it looks like a failure.
    There is nothing humorous about ignorant liberals.

    No, republicans are actually better at math than liberals. Not all republicans, mind you. But the vast majority. Even in the red states. The people there may be simple and less "educated" than northern city folk, but they know to limit their spending to their income, and they know that if you pay someone to do nothing today, he will be back tomorrow with his friends looking for another easy paycheck. Liberals think that if you have checks in your checkbook, than you can keep on spending. And they think that paying someone to do nothing will elicit a feeling of gratitude and obligation and create honest citizens. It's not higher level math or calculus, but it is something to hang your hat on. It's good to know that liberal "elites" like yourself have not lost your ability to try to look down on other people though.

    Civilizations that collapse (Roman Empire, etc.) do so largely because of wasteful and irresponsible government spending, and a lazy populace spoiled by excessive benefits.
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  6. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    no dear, red states don't score as well in math as blue states. keep telling yourself that. and might i add, i would never have said that to you...that you're dumb in certain subjects compared to me, or that republicans are dumber than democrats.....it takes a colossal horse's ass attitude to say that, lol.

    i will of course, fire back....as i did.

    i think you're trying to boost your own ego, actually. and that's funny about 'there's nothing humorous about ignorant liberals'...there's that english/reading/comprehension problem we discussed earlier.

    when i said we'd attribute that to humor...i meant your comment that conservatives were better in math. lol.

    nice attempt. but if you can't back it up with actual facts, not opinions, then who honestly give's a rat's arse?

    not i.

    trying to make this lengthy enough for you to call it 'blathering', because that makes me giggle.
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  7. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    damn. haha. i think it's time for a hot cocoa, and a joint. so i'll cough...big deal....
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  8. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    sweet

    Ithinkitsoitmustbetrueitis and it's corollary, factsareirrelevantitis :D
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  9. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    i'm still laughing. 'not all republicans, but the majority' (are better in math)

    nothing to back this up...just a bad case of that dreaded 'ithinkitsoitmustbetrueitis' lol.
    too bad there's no cough syrup for that...
    ;)
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  10. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    haha...I'm not sure anything can fix just saying things without any substance to back it up. Unreal to me.
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  11. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    did you notice in his rant, that being 'better in math' sort of dissolved into his 'common sense' argument? the whole 'checkbook' thing. lmao
  12. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Yep. factfreeitis
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  13. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    dang, no one noticed that "is it wrong i'm smiling" was courtesy of the whole christie thing. it was one one of the texts...(or maybe email...can't remember)
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  14. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you that the engineers (people that use math to solve real problems) that I know poll about 4:1 towards political and fiscal conservatism.

    I would also argue that liberals have a lot more book sense than common sense. And common sense is all that is needed to know that you shouldn't spend more than you take in, and that having the gov't throw money into the streets to stimulate the economy is not a very wise plan of action. So, in that regard, the red states have pulled your pants down, spanked you and put you to bed.

    But keep going with your arrogant condescension. It reveals a lot about you. When you grow up, you'll realize that wasn't the best way to resolve things.
  15. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    If you feel verti is scoffing at your comments, it's probably because of your penchant for the sweeping generalizations and stereotype. You state such things as if they are just fact. But really, it is just your opinion--and just because you think it doesn't mean it's so.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
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  16. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    ^^^^^ding ding ding ding winner!
  17. vertigo0923
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    vertigo0923 night owl mod VIP Member

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    common sense is not the equivalent of 'being better in math'.

    call a waaaambulance. you fired the first shot with your comment stating 'factually' that republicans are better in math than democrats'

    followed by 'republicans are better in english than democrats'

    and i pretty much annihilated both comments.

    you don't have to be a math whiz to balance a checkbook. hilarious.
    and conservative state math scores are lower than liberal states
    and finally....you didn't do well on the reading comprehension part of our quiz.

    you can try again in a couple days.....

    ;)
  18. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    O.k., let's talk facts. What are the states in the most financial trouble right now?

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/state_debt_rank

    http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7kT.pNRSsBEAZxlXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGFvA2FvBGNzcmNwdmlkA1E4N1F1RGN5TGpPUmhiMnBUZmE1VXdVU05qZ3VNVkxVb3NUX19CcEkEZnIDYWx0YXZpc3RhBGZyMgNzYnRuBG5fZ3BzAzQEb3JpZ2luA3NycARwcXN0cgNVLlMuIHJlZCBzdGF0ZXMgYW5kIGJsdWUgc3RhdGVzBHF1ZXJ5A1UuUy4gcmVkIHN0YXRlcyBhbmQgYmx1ZSBzdGF0ZXMEc2FvAzE-?p=U.S. red states and blue states&fr2=sb-top&fr=altavista&pqstr=U.S. red states and blue states

    Top 17 Worst States for Debt to GDP (the states worse than the median):

    1) New York (26.9%) - blue state
    2) Kentucky (25.2%) - red state
    3) Massachusetts (22.5%) - blue state
    4) South Carolina (21.8%) - red state
    5) Rhode Island (21.6%) - blue state
    6) Illinois (20.7%) - blue state
    7) Pennsylvania (20.5%) - blue state

    8) Alaska (20.5%) - red state
    9) Washington (19.6%) - blue state
    10) New Jersey (19.3%) - blue state
    11) California (19.2%) - blue state
    12) Colorado (18.9%) - blue state

    13) Kansas (18.5%) - red state
    14) Florida (18.4%) - blue state
    15) Nevada (18.1%) - blue state
    16) Michigan (17.9%) - blue state
    17) New Mexico (17.9%) - blue state


    The two worst red states are Appalachian states (and one of them blew their federal Appalachian State Aid on the Panthers football stadium). Anyway, the red states "win" this competition 13-4. They are looking, on average, a lot smarter than the blue states, and it's not even close. If you want to trust someone with money, trust a fiscal conservative. If you want to rack up some debt, hand your money to a liberal.
  19. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    Looks like I just tried again, and you have been defeated.
  20. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    To further the humiliation of the resident uber-liberals on this thread, let's talk about presidents. It is commonly accepted among both historians and the American people that Ronald Reagan is the best president of the last 50 years. Yet, Ronald Reagan was not our smartest president. Even the horribly incompetent Jimmy Carter, who inflicted his malaise upon the American people, was something like a nuclear engineer by training, and was known to be extremely smart. Bill Clinton was some kind of Rhodes Scholar, yet he wasn't our best president. Many of the presidents went to Harvard and Yale, and yet that did not prepare them to be great (or even good, in the case of GWB and BHO) presidents. All Reagan had going for him was common sense. It turns out, that was enough.

    Liberals, I accept your apologies.
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