Aaron Murray: "one of the all-time greats???"

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by clt_gator, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. clt_gator
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    clt_gator Active Member

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/82286/mason-is-ready-to-cast-his-own-shadow

    ESPN SEC blogger Edward Aschoff describes Aaron Murray as "one of the SEC’s all-time greats."

    Look, I know we're all highly biased here, but if you never won a single SEC title in four full seasons as a starter, you're not one of the all-time greats at QB. Murray is a good kid and was a very good QB for sure, but he got INSANELY lucky with schedule during his tenure: never had to play Bama in the regular season, or @ LSU. UF, UT were both down for all 4 of his years. And his non-conference schedule was typically not too challenging.

    So let's dial back the hyperbole, eh Ed?
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  2. phideltdj
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    phideltdj Well-Known Member

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    I think the reverse arguement that he never delivered a championship with bascially all the advantages you stated above is more on the mark. I wouldn't call him a bust but more of a dissapointment. Sure he compiled a bunch of a stats but to be surrounded by players like Moreno and AJ Green not to mention Gurley and Marshall...you are going to put big numbers.
  3. your_perfect_enemy
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    your_perfect_enemy Well-Known Member

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    I hate the little prick as much as the next guy but isn't he the all time leader in TD passes in the SEC?
  4. clt_gator
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    clt_gator Active Member

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    Doesn't make him one of the all-time greats. Sorry. IMO if you're surrounded w/ the talent he was & fail to win the SEC even once in 4 seasons as a starter, you're not an "all-time great."

    I'd cut him slack if his teams sucked (i.e. Manziel). But UGA was loaded pretty much the entire time he was there. Murray was a very, very good QB, but not one of the "all-time greats."
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  5. gator_in_georgia
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    gator_in_georgia Well-Known Member

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    And when you start for 4 years in today's offenses of course you will just throw for a ton of yardage. Add on the the incredible lucky schedule he drew and this is what you get.
  6. theghost
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    theghost Well-Known Member

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    Statistically, he is among the "all-time greats" in the SEC. Was Emmitt Smith great? He didn't win sh;t! And that's putting it mildly. Murray is a 5'10 SEC QB that had a lot of success. He unfortunately played during an era when not many teams could beat Bama or the SEC West (UF 2008 is the last SEC East team to win the SECC).

    Btw, Ed Aschoff is a very, very good writer. ESPN stole him from the G-Sun and he was one of the only writers in the state that put out quality UF reporting (Zach A has done a good job w/ this also).
  7. clt_gator
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    clt_gator Active Member

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    Nothing against Aschoff. He is a good writer. But you can't be an "all-time great" QB without winning the conference even once. Not when you're surrounded by that talent.

    Emmitt was an RB. Different. Also played on bad teams.

    Murray's teams were LOADED and his schedules were favorable.

    Sorry. Great QB? Sure. One of the "all-time greats?" Nope.
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  8. UFreak
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    UFreak Well-Known Member

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    Also for the Emmit and Murray thing, there is an eye test involved. Sometimes you can just watch and say "Oh, OK, that person is amazing." I think you do that with Emmitt, I don't think you do so with Murray.
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  9. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    My initial feeling is "no." At least not top 10 QBs, maybe not even top 20 QBs.
  10. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Statistics tend to get skewed quite a bit when you're starting so very early. And yes, that applies/applied to Chris Leak's records.
  11. UFreak
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    UFreak Well-Known Member

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    And Danny W's, for that matter. But they, as I'm sure you will agree, won and won big.
  12. theghost
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    theghost Well-Known Member

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    I'm not advocating for Aaron Murray. I know this is a Gator board, so the party line is "If they're not Gators.....they suck! (no matter their accomplishments)". I think he is/was a WELL above average QB and think he deserves respect for what he's accomplished in the mighty SEC on the biggest stages in CFB. I'm not going out and buying an Aaron Murray jersey or putting his poster on my bedroom wall. I'm being a non-biased college football fan.

    Statistically, he IS among (AMONG...not THE) all time SEC greats. The stats he surpassed are in the league that we (Gator and all SEC fans) trump as "the best Defense's in college football". Belittling his on-the-field accomplishments diminishes that "best defenses in CFB" argument. He played very admirably vs. Bama in the SECCG 2012, and it's no fault of his the UGA D allowed 500 yards rushing. He is far from "the greatest", but he is "among" the all-time SEC greats at the QB position.

    There are PLENTY of "all-time greats" who never won a championship. If you don't like the Emmitt comparison, how about Eli Manning? He left Ole Miss w/ ZERO SEC titles. Hell, his brother won one SEC in the same season he lost to UF for the 4th time in his career.

    But, since it's a Gator board I take all of that back....Aaron Murray stinks!!!
  13. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, my point is when someone's been starting (or mostly starting) for four years, you can't base "one of the best" solely on the raw numbers.

    Danny and Chris won championships.
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  14. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    I think for "SEC all-time greats" you have to consider Heisman winners and Heisman finalists as top contenders. That includes Spurrier, Tebow, Wuerffel, Grossman, Manziel, P. Manning, Cam Newton (?), and maybe a few others. I don't see Murray in the class of these players.

    Championships can be won by handing the ball off to a great RB, having a fortunate schedule, or having a great defense. Gaudy stats can also be accumulated by playing a weak schedule.
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  15. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah, it's a body of work. Peyton didn't win squat, for example.
  16. gator_in_georgia
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    And let's be honest; Murray carried the label of a "choke artist" his whole career at UGA. In the big games he did have, save for LSU last year, he was horrible. Hell his own fans hated him.
  17. mdfgator
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    mdfgator Well-Known Member

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    At what?
  18. atlantagator86
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    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't go so far as to call Murray a "choke artist", but he's certainly not an all-time great either.

    He put up big numbers and there's no arguing that. And he put up some big numbers against some pretty good defenses. But I think there were a lot factors contributing to those big numbers. In particular, UGA having weak defenses that put them into a lot of shootouts.

    In addition, there are some things that jump out when you look at his stats. First of all, he really didn't improve over his career at UGA. His stats were relatively consistent from his freshman year through his senior season. He really didn't show dramatic improvement over the 4 years at UGA.

    Another thing is that there were some consistency issues, where he had some really bad games, including his performance in the Vandy game in 2013, the UF and USCe games in 2012, LSU and UF in 2011, and UCF in 2010. His freshman year was actually his most consistent season.

    And then add to that 7 losses in 2010, 4 losses in 2011, 2 losses in 2012 and 5 losses in 2013. That's a 36-18 record over his career.
  19. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Well-Known Member

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    Murray had 7 more TDs than Wuerffel did, but he also had 6 more games to do it in. Wuerffel also won 3 SEC Championship Games (Terry Dean was QB in the 1993 game). Danny averaged 2.5 TDs/game and didn't start every game he played in. Murray averaged 2.3 TDs/game, but he also had more OOC cupcakes to boost his numbers against. I don't mind if you say Danny had more talent around him, but if you're just looking at results, Danny's numbers are very clearly better overall, and I would have a hard time believing Danny's numbers in his biggest games weren't significantly better than Murray's in his biggest games.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  20. gatorright
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    If you are searching for a story going into the late spring football doldrums why not whip up some hyperbole about someone who will most likely not be mentioned in any superlative sense from this point on? Sure he had good stats, but the circumstances that allowed them to be created were not the crucible simply saying "In the SEC" brings to mind. Any SEC school that manages to somehow miss the heavies on the other side of the conference for decades on end is deserving of the dreaded asterisk next to any accolades.

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