55 million babies KILLED since Roe V Wade in 1973

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    So the millions of babies who died because of abortions are okay because it's preventing 68,000 deaths of women? Was that the point in the first paragraph? Not a very reasonable point to argue with pro-lifers who think that the life of those women is equivalent to the life of the baby being aborted. Don't quite get bringing that number up. I would rather 68,000 die as opposed to millions upon millions, especially considering the vast majority of those women are making the choice to try and have an abortion as opposed to trying to raise the child, compared to the life of an unborn baby who apparently has little to no rights in the minds of some.
  2. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting non-answer. Truth is, you can't stop someone from hitting someone standing in a parking space any more than you can stop a woman from having an abortion. And another truth, more abortions take place in countries where abortion is illegal than where it is legal. Clearly, telling people not to have an abortion and making it illegal doesn't stop women from having abortions.

    Again, move away from the philosophical realm into reality, and as long as there is a demand for abortion, there will be those who supply it. And as we have learned prohibition doesn't do anything to demand. In fact, more alcohol was consumed during prohibition than before.

    Of course, there is nothing that says if we made abortions illegal here, the number would go up. But there is plenty of evidence that says the number wouldn't go down significantly.

    Which brings me to my point to Tim. The overwhelming majority of babies would have died anyway as legality doesn't end abortions in any county. And clearly, illegal abortions are a significant risk to the pregnant woman. And again, safe, legal, and rare is much better than unsafe, illegal, and no significant reduction. And if you want a reduction in abortions, and whom among us doesn't, your best bet is sex education that reduces the number of unintended pregnancies.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    As discussed on other threads, crime prevention is at best the tertiary role of the criminal justice system.
  4. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Another excellent reason not to criminalize abortion.
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  5. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    You're on a roll rick!
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  6. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    L
    Low. Now 57 million and counting.

    http://www.numberofabortions.com/

    Below are the sources for the statistics used and rationale for the number of abortions used in the abortion counters. Each abortion counter is a real-time estimate of the number of abortion in the US and the number of abortions worldwide based on the very latest data of the actual number of abortions performed in past years. Most of the abortions reported in these numbers are surgically induced. The eleven abortion counters include: number of abortions in the US today, number of abortions in the US since Roe versus Wade (1973), number of abortions in the US this year, number of abortions in the US this year due to rape or incest, number of abortions in the US this year after 16 weeks gestation, number of abortions by Planned Parenthood since 1970, and the number of aborions by planned Parenthood this year, number of abortions worldwide since 1980, number of abortions worldwide this year, and number of abortions worldwide today.* The Guttmacher Institute, formed as a division of Planned Parenthood of America, reported 42 million abortions World-Wide in 2003 which was down from 46 million in 1995. The study was funded by the World Health Organization, an agency of the UN and the World Bank.* In January 2011, the Guttmacher Institute reported: a.) 1.21 million abortions in the US in 2008. The number of abortions from 2005 - 2008 has remained the same; b.) 5.3% of abortions in the US occurred from week 16 of pregnancy to week 32; c.) From 1973 to 2008, more than 50 million legal abortions occurred in the US; and d.) Medication abortion (mifepristone) accounted for one quarter of all abortions before 9 weeks gestation in the US in 2008. US STUDY on abortions: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.pdf

    http://www.lifematterstv.org/abortioncounters.html
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  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Well, no, you would criminalize it for the other higher reasons that there are laws against anything. Am I putting you on or are you putting me on? Our criminal and our civil laws really aren't there to prevent wrongdoing other than as an incidental benefit. 1 and 1A are punishing the wrongdoer and protecting society from them (takes several theoretical forms, like rehabilitation).
  8. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Sure, you could do that. But if the primary impetus is to "protect innocent life" (as your side has argued) rather than to punish offenders (which is typically downplayed) , criminalizing abortion (i.e. turning to the criminal justice system for a remedy) would seem to be the worst possible option, since you've argued that crime prevention is "at best" a tertiary role of the criminal justice system. Now if your primary goal is to punish people who have and provide abortions, then criminal justice seems highly appropriate, but just come clean and say punishment rather than prevention is your motive.
  9. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    until we figure out how to teach women how to stop spreading their legs without protection we will continue to see them kill millions of unborn children each year in the US
  10. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    So, teach sex education and provide contraceptives in schools? ;)
  11. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Do you support rape being illegal, even if the criminal statutes against it don't, in and of themselves, prevent anyone being raped?

    The only thing that prevents a crime reliably is a good and moral people, and unfortunately unlike other loathe some acts we have a lot of voices out there trying to make abortion into something perfectly licit. But the idea of a species of homicide crime that punishes giving or taking in abortion for punishment and prevention of that person's future wrongdoing is just fine, why wouldn't it be?
  12. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    obviously that is not working- for what ever reason women today have an extremely low self esteem about themselves and also seem to have a lot less smarts because you have so many of them spreading their legs without protecting themselves
  13. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Yes, I think rape should be illegal - because I think rape is a crime worthy of state punishment/surrender of personal freedoms.

    So you don't think good or moral people are capable of preventing or reducing abortions without the aid of state mandated punishments for offenders?
  14. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Well bill, I'm not sure calling them dumb, leg-spreadin', abortion havin' hussies is helping there.
  15. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    as I said earlier wgb- you cannot legislate morality- as a country we have lost our moral compass and parents have done a lousy job of teaching their kids morals and respect-I can promise you this, all 4 of my daughters knew all there was to know about how boys are regarding sex and how if they chose to have sex they damned well better use protection-and every boy who took them out in high school was also told by me- "hoss, you do anything to her you shouldn't do, that is exactly what I am going to do to you". there was one time that the boy tried to act like he was all that after I told him that and the date did not happen- he ran home and his momma called me to complain-
  16. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I disagree, bill. Teenage pregnancy is pretty low compared to the past, and kids seem more aware of the risks of sex then ever before, maybe still not aware enough, but I don't see any signs of a decline. If you what you mean about "losing our moral compass" is sex outside Christian marriage, then I think that ship sailed way before I was born.
  17. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    if we are killing over a million unborn babies a year then we have lost our moral compass
  18. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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  19. asuragator
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    Or horny teen boys from pressuring teen girls into having sex. But regardless it's likely a battle never to be won given the sexual drives of teens.

    OTOH, sex ed on abstinence minus the moral overtones, seems to be more effective, as some research seems to have found.
  20. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    I didn't need the school system to teach my kids-you would think in our society we would be able to do a better job educating young women about having the power and not giving it away for free and about teaching boys they share in the responsibility

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