21 graphs that show America’s health-care prices

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    please defend


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    Link


    And a nice interactive map of US outcomes

    Link

    One note: Prices in the United States are expressed as a range. There’s a reason for that. In other countries, prices are set centrally and most everyone, no matter their region or insurance arrangement, pays pretty close to the same amount. In the United States, each insurer negotiates its own prices, and different insurers end up paying wildly different amounts.
  2. mastoidbone
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    mastoidbone VIP Member

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    The information is helpful--but incomplete.
    An example---many us patients want and expect and get private rooms---80% of our beds our private----those nations which spend less---they give you less. Is it cheaper to have 6 patients in a room as is common in Europe?? Yes. Is that what Americans want? I am not so sure.

    Also our costs reflect things like the fact that doctors and nurses are NOT govt workers---I get no pension no health insurance---so when comparing physician costs you are NOT comparing apples to apples. Our physician fees reflect having to pay overhead office malpractice etc---all of which are not reflected when comparing pay to a govt employee without ANY overhead.

    It is still worth looking at---but just known you are not comparing equal things.
  3. secgator
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    secgator Well-Known Member

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    He knew it already. He just didn't think anyone else would. Spin Tactic 101.
  4. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    you do realize that all of these figures are estimates of what COULD happen.......none of this is verifiable as what is actually going to happen.


    I think it's fair to hold off on this discussion for 18 months......until we can actually see the effects.


    cause you have to admit.....estimates and actual haven't lined up too often with the Obama administration.
  5. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    108- what it costs in other countries means little to me-= you bleeding hearts who play the it is not fair card all the time make me puke
  6. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    the numbers for hip and knee replacement are off by 50's of thousands for the 95 %, and thousands for the 25%.
  7. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    Hospital Medicare Payment for Joint Replacement, 1985-2012
    $20000
    $17000
    Revision
    Primary
    FY 2011 FY 2012 % Chg
    Primary 1 $11,748 $11,750 nc
    DRG 209 Split into Medicare Payment
    Revision 1 $18,048
    $18,266 +1.2%
    $14000 Primary and Revision
    $11000 for "Average" Hospital
    Primary Joint Replacement
    $8000 $5000 85 90 95 00 05 10
    1993 Payment: 2012 Payment:
    $9,645 $11,750
    Change in Method of Calculating Capital Payment to Hospitals
    21.8% Increase 1Payment for most likely most frequently occurring joint replacement DRGs—470
    (primary) and 467 (revision) based on national adjusted operating amounts
  8. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    Patient perception of physician reimbursement in elective total hip and knee arthroplasty.
    Foran JR, Sheth NP, Ward SR, Della Valle CJ, Levine BR, Sporer SM, Paprosky WG.
    Source
    Panorama Orthopaedics and Spine Center, Golden, Colorado 80401-9522, USA.
    Abstract
    The purpose of this study was to evaluate patient perception of orthopedic surgeon reimbursement for total hip (THA) and knee (TKA) arthroplasty. A total of 1120 consecutive patients were asked what they believed a surgeon should be paid for performing THA and TKA. Patients were then asked to estimate what Medicare actually reimbursed for each of these procedures. On average, patients thought that surgeons should receive $14,358 for THA and $13,332 for TKA. Patients estimated actual Medicare reimbursement to be $8212 for THA and $7196 for TKA. Most of the patients stated that Medicare reimbursement was "much lower" than what it should be. Many patients commented that given this discrepancy, surgeons may drop Medicare, which may decrease access to quality hip and knee arthroplasties.
    On average, patients thought that surgeons should receive $18,501 for total hip replacements, and $16,822 for total knee replacements. Patients estimated actual Medicare reimbursement to be $11,151 for total hip replacements and $8,902 for total knee replacements. Seventy per cent of patients stated that Medicare reimbursement was “much lower” than what it should be, and only 1% felt that it was higher than it should be.
    In reality, surgeons get paid on average $1,378( lower in my geographic region, as if that makes a difference) for a total hip and $1,430 for a total knee. Thus patients were off by an order of magnitude in their estimates! The disconnect in public knowledge seems extreme.
    In short, patients — the most important part of all of health care policy decisions — have absolutely no clue how much doctors get paid. They think we get paid (or, at least, deserve to) about 10 times more than we actually do!
  9. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    it is important that you know of what you speak before you speak nonsense, My guess is that most people probably think your numbers are real and that I make much more for a joint replacement than i do, see the above post
  10. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    or i don't care what you personally make for joint replacement
  11. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Don't cry for us Argentina...Obamacare will make things even worse.
  12. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    One if the reasons ( and there are multiple) is how the prices are set

    . http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/e...280-in-france/2011/08/25/gIQAVHztoR_blog.html

    One way to resolve this issue is to allow health insurance companies to cross state lines. So far this idea has not proven fruitful because of the time and effort it takes to build a provider net work. Here is moe info http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/20...th-insurance-across-state-lines-reduce-costs/
  13. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    You obviously have little regard for the truth in any aspect that doesn't advance your particular propaganda, true or not. If someone took the time to forward me absolute true facts, I hope I review them rather than acting like a kindergarten student on the playground. Nobody is making that off anything and you just don't care as long as you can post lies and your propaganda
  14. secgator
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    secgator Well-Known Member

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    OR....we don't care what numbers, charts, graphs, and lies you wish to post either, as they are repeatedly---wrong. Liberal slanted, and outright distortions to deflect the truth to suit you and all the other liberal agenda.

    Are we all even now? :grin:
  15. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    It is important to know what the numbers in the initial post are before declaring them "nonsense." The numbers in the OP have nothing to do with Medicare payments or what people think you should get paid. They are numbers of a survey of private (not Medicare) insurers and what they pay for different procedures. The numbers are just as real as the numbers you posted. They just are showing what different forms of Insurance pay (you are showing what the government pays while he shows what private insurance pays).

    Interestingly, you make a pretty strong case for more government involvement in health care to lower costs, as those procedures when performed with a single payer system (Medicare) do seem to be cheaper than the 25% mark of private insurance payments.
  16. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    though a lib myself----

    I find the Op charts to lack two critical things that really stand out
    1. cost of living in those countries
    2. quality of care---in some of those countries listed the care is about on par with that of the U.S.,,,,but in a number of the countries the care is inferior

    To me, what matters is whether or not the healthcare system of a country works.

    you don't need all those charts to demonstrate that the corporate healthcare system in America is a high priced wreck that frequently fails to deliver. Performance so bad that people who have for years been buying health insurance and been ripped off are so desperate that they are even willing to have America's inefficient, etc govt as who they'd rather pay for medical care(via taxes to the govt than money to insurance companies).

    The current freeloaders in America have no need for ACA since they already receive govt medical. The ones wanting govt medical are those who aren't already receiving it(people who either self pay or have been paying money to insurance companies for services they end up not receiving adequately).
  17. surfn1080
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    surfn1080 Well-Known Member

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    Well I know I don't have to wait for my care for a few months!
  18. manigordo
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    manigordo Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. ranks last in social mobility between Norway (highest) Sweden, Finland Denmark Canada, Germany and the UK. Those damned Socialist countries offer MORE social mobility than the U.S.

    The U.S. has higher homicides and greater income inequality than. Finland, Portugal, Sweden France Israel Canada, Belgium Denmark Norway Japan, Austria Germany Greece, Italy Australia UK New Zealand Switzerland Spain Ireland and Singapore.

    The US pays WAY, WAY more for health care than all of the above countries and has the lowest life expectancy than all, with the exceptions of Portugal and Denmark.

    I use Voltaren for my knees and pay around $45 a tube WITH and prescription and my insurance. It was 5 Euros in Greece with no insurance and no prescription.

    If you think the market system [framed by current regulations (written by big business)] works for health care you are an ideologue who is just not looking at the reality. Big Brother is NOT the U.S. government, it is Big Business.
  19. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Both actually.

    But don't fear, just keep lining up on one side or the other.
  20. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Why do medical services and supplies cost more in the USA?

    For one thing our medical system is not in a free market.
    The price setting for the gov't programs (Medicare and Medicaid ) and the lack of
    competition for health insurance providers enalbes higher costs to pass on the people who can afford to buy health insurance.

    Having health insurance companies compete across state lines may help. Please note that the help from this solution is a long time in comming. Setting up a provider network is the biggest snag.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/03/do-health-insurers-even-want-to-sell-across-state-lines/

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/why-an-mri-costs-1080-in-america-and-280-in-france/2011/08/25/gIQAVHztoR_blog.html

    More supporting information on why things cost more in the USA. We pay for th R&D and Legal Costs.


    http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/why-does-mri-cost-1080-us-and-280-france

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