1st down

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by deathroll, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. deathroll
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    deathroll Well-Known Member

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    I have the feeling that UF is too conservative on 1st and 10. Wanted to see if my feelings were justified. Also was curious about the results of the two types of plays on 1st down. I watched a replay of the Miami game and wrote down run/pass/results data. I eliminated the 1st and 15 play. Also stopped taking notes once we got down 21 to 9 late. I do understand that field position affects play selection; not messing with any of this. May have missed one somewhere but here's what I found.

    r 6
    p 22
    r 1
    r 0
    p 9
    p 0
    r 1
    r -5 (false start)
    r 4
    r -4
    r 3
    r 4
    r 4
    p 5
    p 18
    r 8
    p 0
    p 17
    p -5 (false start)
    r 8
    r 1
    p 15
    r -1
    p 7
    r 3
    r -10 (holding)
    r 1
    p 11
    r 12
    r 2
    r 2

    Also, noted that we pulled the trigger downfield (ball thrown in the air 12 yards or more - my made-up definition) 5 times during the game (not 5 times on 1st down, I regret that I didn't take notice of down and distance when we "went long"). Anyway, here's what I found:

    47
    18
    0
    15
    0
    • Like Like x 1
  2. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    I think play-calling is kind of overrated. Only fans of teams with bad offenses complain about the play-calling. Why? Because its a lot easier to second-guess something that didn't work.

    Honestly if we had better players, better execution in blocking, route-running, decision making, etc then just about any play that was called would be successful a majority of the time. Do you think its possible to take our current players with our current playbook and somehow push different buttons that Pease is pushing and get better results? Maybe marginally. Perhaps maybe the scheme itself is flawed - the blocking schemes, routes, etc are ill-conceived. That could be.

    To me, its like the philosophy issue. Teams with good offenses dont complain about their philosophy. Whether youre BYU rolling up 550 yards on the ground and putting up 40 points against Texas or you're Georgia throwing for 300+ yards and 4 TDs against South Carolina. Either case I bet fans are happy with the philosophy.
  3. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    As well as a team like Alabama has been coached and with as good of players as they've had during this run you could probably hand their playbook to any high school coach in america and let him call the plays for a game and I bet they would execute them pretty well and he would succeed.

    When you have good players, who are well coached in the fundamentals, and have mastered the execution of your playbook which includes well-designed plays, then I really don't think it matters so much which plays you call. (Overall looking big picture in terms of how your offense produces. Of course you need to call plays that somewhat make sense for the situation). Unfortunately we just don't have all of those things right now, so play-calling is going to be difficult.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  4. deathroll
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    deathroll Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree. Thing is, you hear so much about Muschamp's/Pease' ball control/run inside the tackles/wear-em-out conservatism that I wanted to "see" if we mix it up on 1st down or just try and ram it.
  5. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    And what did you think? Looks like run and pass was pretty well mixed. I've seen Pease fool me a couple of times when I was certain that a run up the middle was coming. Take the first play of the game for example. He play-faked a run up the middle and Driskel pulled it down and ran outside for like 7 yards. I dont think that was a read as much as it was designed and it was smart. Put us ahead of the chains instead of being in 2nd and long. Same thing on the 3rd and short against Toledo when we pitched wide to Showers for a big gainer.

    I do think it helps a "shaky" passing game like ours to pass more on first down when the defense is uncertain. When it is 3rd and long and we have to pass, that is not a good situation for us to be in.
  6. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Heres what I think is the priority of what is needed to build a good offense:

    1. Talented, athletic football players
    2. Fundamentals of blocking, route-running, ball security, etc
    3. Good offensive coordinator with a well-designed system
    4. Install O.C.'s system (master execution of plays, understand how to audible, etc)
    5. Game-day playcalling
    6. Avoid penalties

    If you have excelled at items 1-4, then play-calling is easy.
  7. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely. But every now and then a fan screams "oh no" as the play is about to unfold and and before the results are known. Sometimes the fan turns out to be right. I had two "oh no" moments in the UM game - the two-point conversion try and the QB sneak on 4th and one. I had another in the Louisville game when we opened the second half with an on-sides kick. Of course I've had plenty of "oh nos" on plays that ended up working well too. But every now and then the fans do know something or at least are good guessers.
  8. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah for sure. I was more talking about play-calling and how it affects the offense and its overall production over the course of a game or season. Certainly there are individual play calls that can be questioned, even on the best of offenses.

    But why did you say "oh no" on those 2 play calls? They are both plays that are almost gimmes if you execute simple blocks. Oregon routinely picks up 2 that way no problem. I've seen Tom Brady sneak on 4th and short dozens of times and he almost always picks up the first down with an extra couple of yards to spare. Why? These are good offenses that know how to block. So you were probably worried for the same reason I was - we won't be able to pull this off here because we're not always fundamentally sound enough.
  9. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    ... and (in my humble opinion) we have had problems with items 1 & 2 at various key positions on the offense going back to the reign of Meyer that have had more impact on our offense than 3-6 combined ...
  10. slayerxing
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    slayerxing Well-Known Member

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    Every coach has calls in a game he wants back. Muschamp said as much about the 4th and inches that UF messed up so bad in the red zone.

    I mean, the thing is, there are coaches on the other sideline also making play calls, and sometimes they get the right play in there and there isn't much you can do.

    And then sometimes you get the perfect play call, like the wide open Dunbar on the PA pass that should have been a TD on 2nd down, and your QB doesn't execute.

    The fumbles, both plays, there wasn't anything wrong with those play calls. Hell Trey Burton had gotten a first down and just dropped the damn ball. He wasn't even hit all that hard.

    The fumble by UF's red zone, Miami just got good pressure in there. There wasn't anything wrong necessarily with the play call.

    The play call on third and short late in the game on the INT? Not a bad play, Trey was right there, the players just didn't execute. Which makes sense, Trey is experienced, but he hasn't been playing the slot all that long, and Driskel also didn't execute and threw it high. That was a first down if everyone did their jobs right.

    So I think we need to back off the coaches from the play calling angle. The real issue is why isn't this team executing? You would think, that our senior slot guy and our junior 2nd year starter could execute a simple throw like that, and they didn't. That's what's worrisome.

    UF clearly needs to put in more situational red zone work during practice to iron that out.

    Just my two cents.
  11. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    It is very worrisome since execution is so high on the list of priorities. Its probably #1 even over having talented players. Miami, with a lineup most would agree is not as strong as ours, won the game simply because they out-executed us.

    Maybe our players aren't good enough to expect to dominate people but we should at least be able to execute our plays and run our offense a little more crisply than we are seeing.
  12. g8rboy
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    g8rboy Active Member

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    so is that 8/10 for 104 yards on first down pass attempts?
  13. gator34654
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    gator34654 Well-Known Member

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    My concern with this O is that when we play against really good D, I'm not sure JD can handle it. So far he has trouble reading defenses and picking out open receivers. I don't know if defense schemes confuse him but it seems he relies on 2 or 3 particular plays and those are now well defended.

    Teams know as the stat shows, JD rarely throws beyond ten yards. Teams know WM wants to keep the chains moving and use a down hill running game. We are easy to defend with a bend but don't break knowing sooner or later we will self destruct and so far we usually have.

    I'm saddened that we have missed on quality qbs since Tebow. Brantley was a train wreck and so far JD has glaring limitations. How in the world do we not have a top flight qb.
  14. slayerxing
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    slayerxing Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say UF is easy to defend right now. UF moved up the ball well against Miami and Toledo. I'm sure neither team would say UF was easy to defend.

    The issue here is execution.
  15. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Yes it is.
  16. deathroll
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    deathroll Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Not bad, eh? Only thing we didn't do was break one.
  17. klgator
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    klgator Member

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    I counted 62 yards on 18 carries for a 3.4 average. That's not what you want to be averaging on first down. We're definitely forcing the run with the defense stacked against it. We passed 10 times for 104 yards. Good news is we're putting it in the air more and averaging more than 10 yards a throw. Hopefully, as we succeed more in passing on first down, we will burn the defense and keep them from stacking the box.
  18. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Now that is an interesting stat. 10.4 YPA is very, very good.
  19. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Game day play-calling is an art (esp in the SEC wars).
    Those who have it excel and those who don't...get mixed results.
    You know...like NOT calling for the option on the short side of the field. :wave:
  20. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the option isn't the smartest play to run to the short side but IIRC Gilly had several TD runs (LSU, FSU) to the short side of the field, so Pease must see something there he likes.

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