0bama praises Ho Chi Minh

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator85jd, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    Oh, well in light of that, it was really honorable for 0bama to acknowledge a guy who butchered thousands of his own people. Given that 0bama is doing everything in his power (and some things beyond his power) to harness the producers to provide for the non-producers in our society, I can see his admiration for Ho.
  2. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Thousands? Is that all? How many loyalists were killed or dispossessed during the American Revolution?
  3. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    In Vietnam, who were the so-called "producers" that Ho harnessed or eliminated? I am trying to draw your connection to Obama's inspiration from Ho on this contention.

    Yes, I believe that Obama does actively attempt to syphon off the productive, successful job creators when he isn't sucking up to Jay-Z and Beyonce. I just don't see Ho Chi Minh as his inspiration for that.

    Let's not cloud the real issue of him using the IRS as a means to stifle his opponents. That is the greatest crime of all, IMO.
  4. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    Ho targeted a lot of Vietnamese, but particularly land owners. Many of whom were murdered. If you've heard Vietnamese boat people talk, many were family of land owners who were murdered. They talk about in their culture, land was sacred and passed down for generations. The idea that they would get on boats that were not seaworthy with no idea of where they might end up or if they would be captured by pirates or have the boat sink just to escape the oppression institutionalized by Ho speaks volumes.
  5. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Yes, I know all of that, which is why our "Zippo raids" on Vietnamese hamlets did such great wonders in "winning the hearts and minds" of the people we were trying save.

    Wealthy land owners where part of the elite Mandarin Class which were French educated and entitled. They did nothing but look down on the peasantry with disdain and take advantage of them. They were seen as a part of the colonial French society and roundly hated. Wealthy Mandarin Class sided with the French so you might see how the rest of the population, which was brutally oppressed by the French, might not see these folks in a favorable light. The peasant class was basically relegated to indentured servitude to the wealthy landowners who where propped up by the French. Make sense?

    You still haven't answered my question, though.
  6. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    my daughter's boyfriend is Vietnamese. I'll ask him what he (or his family) thinks about Ho.
  7. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Are our diplomats required to castigate Chairman Mao each time they meet with the Chinese, or are they allowed to conduct diplomacy?
  8. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    His grandparents, I am sure, have a very low opinion of him just as older Cubans have a low opinion of Castro. Younger generations are a little more removed from those times, were born in the US and identify with American culture. They generally don't feel as passionate about the matter. Those in the south and who fought for the south were very fearful for their lives. Rightfully so. BTW, the governments in the south were propped up by the US and were very corrupt so they were seen in a similar light as the French. Also, they did virtually nothing to advance the cause of democracy which is why Nixon's policy of Vietnamization failed. There were good leaders in Vietnam but they were fighting an uphill battle from within, they really had no chance as corruption was abound.

    Of course, the French brutalized and tortured the Vietnamese save for a small portion of the population. Military mastermind Vo Ngyuen Giap's wife was tortured and murdered by the French. You might understand why he hated them so and why he was so passionate about expelling foreign rule and influence of every form..

    I am not an advocate of Ho's politics just as am I not an advocate of Castro's but I do admire their resolve and endurance.

    Interestingly, Vietnam is now an economic powerhouse and they have a high literacy rate. It was at about 10% during the French occupation.
  9. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Many loyalist stayed
  10. rivergator
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    So, if I follow, conservative here are claiming that Ho couldn't possibly have been inspired by Jefferson and our DOI, even though he claimed to be and quoted it verbatim in his own DOI, since he did bad stuff.
    Is that it?
  11. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Evidently.
  12. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    So which makes you happier, (i) that Ho claims he was inspired by the founding fathers (regardless of the fact that he was a ruthless butcher of his own people), or (ii) that 0bama felt it important to remind the world that Ho claims he was inspired by the founding fathers (regardless of the fact that he was a ruthless butcher of his own people)?
  13. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Does it bother you that many of the founders owned slaves?
  14. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    Did Jefferson torture and murder people by the thousands? I must have missed that day at school.
  15. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    So does it bother you that the author of the DoI owned slaves?
  16. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    No it doesn't. Now, how about answering the questions I posed but you've avoided answering. Which makes you happier, (i) that Ho claims he was inspired by the founding fathers (regardless of the fact that he was a ruthless butcher of his own people), or (ii) that 0bama felt it important to remind the world that Ho claims he was inspired by the founding fathers (regardless of the fact that he was a ruthless butcher of his own people)?
  17. RD_gator
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    RD_gator Well-Known Member

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    During the last 4th of July, if anybody watched the John Adams mini-series shown on ?HBO than you would be shocked by some of the views held by Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson believed in a world view where people would become so enlightened that government will eventually be no longer needed by the people to be governed - the democracy that the founding fathers established in the United States was merely a bridge to something better. Talk about being a 'dangerous revolutionary' that was far ahead of his time, that Thomas Jefferson! Sounds like John Lennon in one of the Beatles song ('Imagine').

    Meanwhile, John Adams (a bitter political adversary but very close friend of Jefferson's) believed in the formation of a great, powerful government in the U.S. that could eventually rival the great European monarchies (i.e, England, France, etc.). Adams believed in a centrally, strong U.S. government.
  18. Allanon
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    Allanon Well-Known Member

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    That may be but I was talking about Eisenhower's comments that it would be a tragedy to get the USA involved in Vietnam.
  19. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    i got that. The message was the same and from two great military minds. JFK would have done millions a favor if he had taken heed and he did not. Perhaps he felt he needed to flex some muscle after he got his ass handed to him by Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Funny that Bush is vilified for Iraq while Kennedy Gets a pass for Vietnam. Camelot my ass. Heck, even LBJ gets a pass even though he fabricated the event that led to direct military escalation in Vietnam. I am referring to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution for you twenty- something Obamaites out there who probably weren't taught shit about this while in school.Yet, from eyes of the press and libs everywhere, Nixon was the villain in Vietnam. Not JFK and not LBJ. That is complete BS. And before you say that Nixon violated sovereign nations like Cambodia and Laos, I have a friend who ran sorties in both countries back in 1965.
  20. toon66
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    Jefferson also said the federal government needed to be overthrown every twenty years.

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