0bama praises Ho Chi Minh

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator85jd, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    They're not irrelevant, but with the dismissive attitude, that really tells me all I need to know about your aptitude to carry on a discussion about this topic.
  2. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    That's pretty rich, especially since this entire topic seems to exist in defiance of the historical consensus.

    I did answer your irrelevant question earlier, though. For lagniappe.
  3. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    It's not as much an insult as it is an observation about the need for some on here to make excuses and deflect on behalf of an incompetent and corrupt leader. As I stated in a previouse post that you ignored:

    If it's option 2, why?
  4. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    No you didn't answer the question, but that's your prerogative. Please tell me what the topic of the thread is for a little lagniappe. Laissez les bons temps rouler.
  5. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Laissez le crétin lu. Of course I answered the question. The topic of this thread is whether Obama was factually correct in observing that Ho Chi Minh considered himself to have been inspired by the words of Thomas Jefferson. And the historical consensus is that the answer to that question is "yes."
  6. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    Rude insults aside, you're missing the point, but don't let that stop you.

    http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?t=266941#ixzz2aHONakKO
  7. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    What does that have to do with the veracity of Obama's statement?
  8. northgagator
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    northgagator Well-Known Member

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    Think of the absurdity of your statement!

    Answer this question:
    If Ho was truly inspired by our Founding Fathers then why was he so quick to snuff out the rights and lives of free Vietnamese citizen.

    By the way Ho was statement on our Founding Fathers was a ploy to con the Vietnamese into the trap of Stalin like Communism.
    By the mud 20th century many new nations or nations that were throwing off their colonial masters or monarchies looked up to our Founding Fathers as they set up their democratic republics. At the same time Stalin was using the same line that Ho used as he enslaved Eastern Europe.

    No, you can remain truthful by be conscious to the environment like Walden was.

    Also many of our Founding Fathers proved their inspiring words with their actions. Some of these men were flawed by allowing slavery but some of these men went the extra step by laying the ground work for the abolition movement.

    On the other had Ho was far from sincere about his inspiration. Ho's actions were a well documented list if atrocities and democide.
  9. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Do you guys realize that the American Revolution was first and foremost an anticolonial struggle concerned with national self determination?
  10. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    You still fail to grasp the point of the thread. You are either purposely ignoring it or you just aren't capable of ascertaining the issue. But hey, no brains, no worries! Take a break and go for a ride in the car.
  11. jimgata
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    jimgata Premium Member

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    Why get upset? Obama has praised everything and everybody not of this country.
    When he speaks of this country, it is mostly condemnation and blame.
  12. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    0bama's Great Apology Tour was the first time a U.S. President had gone to the effort to travel the world denouncing the United States on foreign soil. Carter had apologized, but it was done largely from the U.S.
  13. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    If I was worried about your brains I'd have precious little to worry about.
  14. jimgata
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    jimgata Premium Member

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    Obama must also be inspired by Jefferson who said,
    As far as admiration, the man who speaks the most nomsense is the most admired.
  15. FlyingGatorII
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    FlyingGatorII Premium Member

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    OP said this..

    "Either 0bama is ignorant and lazy for failing to research just who Ho was or, worse, Barry really believes this absurd horse crap. Does he really know how many Viet Namese this butcher murdered?"

    It was more a statement about how disgusting it was of a sitting President of the US giving this butcher any legitimacy at all by mentioning him in the same sentence as our founding fathers. Your response was this..

    "you're saying Ho Chi Minh wasn't inspired by Jefferson?"

    ..which completely ignored the original point that Obama was wrong to say anything remotely positive about Ho after his role in US and Southeast Asian history.

    You then ignored my question about whether or not you agree that Obama saying what he said was totally inappropriate. Please respond to that before you try and deflect further form the original point of this thread and not the one you tried to turn it into..
  16. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    Correct. The French were horrible, vicious colonial rulers over Vietnam. The Mandarin Class had a long history of abdication and acquiescence in order to maintain their elitist, land-owning status. Ho and his followers wanted self rule, self determination and sought support from the US. We supported the French in maintaining there ruthless and plunderous endeavor to the point that we funded up to 80% of France's war effort in Vietnam during the 50's. No matter, because the French got their asses kicked as they are so skilled at doing. We then continued with effort under the fear of the "Domino Effect" which turned out to be a farce. Yes, China supported Vietnam but the Vietnamese hate the Chinese and this goes back for centuries as the Chinese believe that the region as theirs to rule as well. However, in Vietnams quest for self-determination, they were willing to accept whatever assistance they could get and the Chinese and Russia were more than willing to help.

    If Ho butchered his own people, it was because he viewed them as pawns of Western Colonialism and they were then considered the enemy, too.

    Independence is a brutal bloody affair. If I was ruled over by some outside power and I was willing kill/ die for independence, I would certainly eliminate my own countrymen who sympathized/coerced with the outside power. I am willing to bet our founding fathers supported the same thing themselves.

    Vietnam's independence and Ho's mission are extremely complex and cannot be taken at face value. I suggest picking up Stanley Karnow's book and doing some reading on the matter to fully understand why things happened the way that did. You will see that it was all so unnecessary and the Vietnamese suffered mightily under Chinese, Japanese and French rule for centuries and then we came along. They were pretty fed up and pissed off; rightly so.

    No, I am not a commie, socialist or a fan of this celebrity hog we call the POTUS. He is no more than a Kardashian as far as I am concerned. I do admire Ho Chi Minh for his resolve even if I don't agree with his eventual political philosophies. He ultimately wanted his people to be free. Sound familiar?
  17. toon66
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    toon66 VIP Member

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    The was General MacArthur while on his deathbed. He didn't listen and he escalated, LBJ escalated further and Nixon inherited a mess. PJ O'Rourke once said the Dems would have learned a hard lesson on diplomacy had Robert Kennedy not been assassinated as he, in all likelihood, would have won the presidency instead of Nixon.
  18. vangator1
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    vangator1 Well-Known Member

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    Does Obozo and Ho Chi Minh surprise anyone?
  19. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    I would think river knows all of this. He enjoys playing his game on here -- distorting the point and refusing to answer questions when called on it. No wonder he idolizes Hussein.
  20. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Let's throw out some more factual statements with implications some might find disturbing:

    Hitler drew inspiration for the final solution from the United States' treatment of Native Americans, and said so in Mein Kampf.

    Thomas Jefferson, the author of the phrase "all men are created equal," owned slaves and refused to free them on his death.

    Thomas Paine, one of the primary instigators of the American Revolution, voted to guillotine the former American ally, Louis XVI, and later died ignominiously in a French prison.

    The British continued their illegal blockade of neutral shipping to Germany for months after the WWI armistice, resulting in the needless starvation of almost a half million Germans.

    The British knew about Pearl Harbor weeks ahead of time, and said nothing to the US about it.

    After WWI, US troops invaded Russia in support of the White Russian army and tried to eliminate the Bolsheviks. This incident is rarely mentioned in US history, despite its explanatory power regarding Cold War politics.

    The US promised to free the Philippines after the Spanish American War, but held onto it as a colony for another 4 decades, much of which was spent fighting a brutal guerrilla war.

    The CIA overthrew or backed the overthrow of a number of popularly elected governments during the Cold War and put strong men sympathetic to the US in their place.

    Ho Chi Minh was a US ally during WWII and fought an extensive guerrilla campaign against the Japanese.

    Ho Chi Minh asked the US to support Vietnamese independence after WWI in keeping with the DoI & Wilson's 14 points ("national self determination"); the US refused to help.

    Ho Chi Minh again asked the the US to support Vietnamese independence after WWII; the US again refused to help.

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