Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator85jd, Aug 8, 2013.
Clapper is the only one left from the list that overruled Jarrett. Pretty telling if you ask me.
I see you're a sci-fi fan. I assume this is from the conservative best selling author Minter's book (you guys will buy multiple Coulter and Rush books if it scratches where you itch), which doesn't even get the dates right. There was no operational plan in January or February, that having not been requested by Obama until March (see - http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle). Compare Minter's un-sourced fantasy (maybe the same guys as Art Bell an the "Conseravtive Report" listens to) to these sources:
Robert Gates (maybe you've heard of him. Sec of D under Bush and Obama and a National Security guy who started when Nixon was in office?):
"Defense Secretary Robert Gates has told 60 Minutes that President Obama's decision to launch a raid against Osama Bin Laden's compound with ground troops was "one of the most courageous" decisions he has ever seen a president make.
Gates adds ""Frankly, my heart was in my mouth... There was a lot of uncertainty about whether he was there. This was a very risky operation. So, I was very concerned. So was the President... I worked for a lot of these guys and this is one of the most courageous calls -- decisions -- that I think I've ever seen a president make."
Gates cites the uncertainty of the intelligence and the potential consequences if the mission failed as reinforcing his view of Obama's courage in making the call.
The full interview will be shown on tonight's 60 Minutes . You can watch a clip below
or Admiral McRaven:
""At the end of the day, make no mistake about it, it was the president of the United States that shouldered the burden of this operation, that made the hard decision," McRaven (Adm. Bill McRaven, head of the U.S. Special Operations command) said during an on-stage interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer that served as the kickoff session of the Aspen Security Forum....
McRaven refused to respond Wednesday when asked whether he agreed with Romney that any president would have made the same decision Obama did. However, at a couple of junctures, the Special Operations commander offered effusive praise for Obama.
"The president of the United States is fantastic," the admiral said. "I'm not a political guy. I've worked in both [administrations,] very much enjoyed working with President Bush and I very much enjoy working for President Obama. This isn't about politics. This is about a Commander in Chief who I have the opportunity to engage with on a routine basis."
McRaven also had high praise for Obama's national security team, including those in place at the time of the raid, such as then-Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, then-Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen, National Security Adviser Tom Donilon, Deputy National Security Advisers Denis McDonough and John Brennan.
"I'm not a political guy, but I’ll tell you as an interested observer of this, they were magnfiicent how they handled the start-to-finish," McRaven said. "The president asked all the right questions…The president gave me ample time to prepare once the conversations were through."
and Obama's#2 military advisor:
"it was Obama who ordered more choppers to go on the operation, according to Adm. Mike Mullen, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of the Staff, who told me, "Obama is the one that put in the Chinook-47s. He is the one that said, 'There is not enough backup.' "
I know you guys eat this stuff up because ... well what else are you going to do. You might consider that Obama promised this course of action during the 2008 campaign and was belittled for it by McCain, Hillary, and indirectly Bush all of whom favored letting Pakistan take care of it. For instance:
"One month before the 2008 Presidential election, Obama, then a senator from Illinois, squared off in a debate against John McCain in an arena at Belmont University, in Nashville. A woman in the audience asked Obama if he would be willing to pursue Al Qaeda leaders inside Pakistan, even if that meant invading an ally nation. He replied, “If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani government is unable, or unwilling, to take them out, then I think that we have to act and we will take them out. We will kill bin Laden. We will crush Al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national-security priority.” McCain, who often criticized Obama for his naïveté on foreign-policy matters, characterized the promise as foolish, saying, “I’m not going to telegraph my punches.”."
(see link above)
You guys prefer your prez dressed in a flight suit and a cod piece, but you're just gonna' have to live with the fact - not your fantasy - that your guy dithered and went on a snipe hunt in the wrong country and my guy said in 2008 that he'd go into Pakistan to get OBL and then did it. BTW, he's our prez.
I love how this is all a video game to you, or, I don't know, a pro wrestling chat room argument.
The answer is, both Bush and Obama have made their respective messes of this. Long term, though, Obama's mess is worse since he still seems to be operating under the pathological delusion that if OBL is dead and al Qaeda in a state of whackamole, the whole problem is solved. Bush, right country or wrong country, was actually closer to the existential mark when he was a bit dismissive of OBL as being a bit beside the point. There is always going to be another OBL as long as the ideological foothold for them continues to exist, and we're not doing anything at all to push back, to sand that foothold down flush against the proverbial wall, if we can't even call Hissan a terrorist or identify the terrorist attacks against us for what they are and the explicit, specific motive behind them.
On your first point. it is impossible to take some of the posters on this thread serioislu or with any respect, given the low standards of evidence they employ in decisions (and this isn't even a discussion of religioun).
On your latter "point", thanks for at least not pretending Obama doesn't deserve credit for the decisions and change in policy he instituted which resulted in our killing OBL in Pakistan. However, Obama is not confused about the threat of AQ as is evident from the speech he gave on terrorism only about a month ago. How you would continue to be confused about this must be based on your failure to read it, hear it, or read news reports on it.
You enjoy your fiction and I'll enjoy mine. I have heard this from more than one source and it is more believable to me then your version, especially when you look at Obama's schedule that weekend and see his look of WTF is going on in that famous picture from the situation room. Keep the 60 minutes, cnn and huff post links coming though 'cause we all know how critical they have been of your hero!! BTW, he is our President, but that's your and his other supporters fault. I will tell my kids that daily when they ask how anyone could have elected such a corrupt and inept man to the highest office in the land that left them such a mess.
I'm sorry, but the only fiction posted between us is the best seller you quoted aimed at gullible conservatives like you. I'm sure the writer got rich on the same audience that finds that 3 hours of Limbaugh or Levin and 1 hour of O'Reilly isn't enough and they need to trot down to Books A Million to buy their books. Hell, I'd write one aimed at this easy target of an audience if I could spell. They'll buy anything that slammed "he who must be hated", just like you did.
But, back to the specifics, are you saying that those news sources are misquoting Sec Gates and Admirals McRaven and Mullen? Perhaps you could prove this charge. I would think that if an imposter had pretended to be Sec Gates on 60 minutes that somebody would have noticed by now. What do you say? Put up or shut up.
This Adm McRaven..?
WASHINGTON -- The nation's top special operations commander ordered military files about the Navy SEAL raid on Osama bin Laden's hideout to be purged from Defense Department computers and sent to the CIA, where they could be more easily shielded from ever being made public.
The secret move, described briefly in a draft report by the Pentagon's inspector general, set off no alarms within the Obama administration even though it appears to have sidestepped federal rules and perhaps also the Freedom of Information Act.
This 60 minutes...?
BTW, I don't blame Mullen and Gates for backing Obama on just about everything. They learned very well what happens to those that don't tow the entire Obama line after Gen Petraues had his affair revealed shortly before he was to give testimony on Behghazi that was likely not going to agree with the OA version..
Anyway, no one here has a hope of getting you to ever accept that Obama is anything but perfect and there is no need for me to waste my time trying now. When it comes to the truth about how the OBL raid went down, your guy once again hid the evidence, just like he did with Fast and Furious so it may be a long time before we know the truth. Maybe you are right and the guy who slept and went to Vegas while our Ambassador and 3 other Americans were bring murdered in Benghazi was all Clint Eastwood when it came to OBL. My gut tells me that the version I presented is a whole lot closer to the truth then that..
And back to the thread..I think Obama did the right thing in cancelling the meeting and should go even further, but I all ready said that..
Makes you wonder what they found in Roberts NSA database before aca was decided
You are correct to not waste more time trying to convince me if you don't have anything better than the weak a.s s..t you posted so far, but hey, some others on here share your same low standards for proof which amounts to "if it slanders Obama, it must be true".