0bama acting like a spoiled child

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator85jd, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    You basically, have a mollycoddled boy President in a world of men.

    Putin is easily hated for layers upon layers of reasons, but he knows a boy when he sees one.

    And yes, that is your President.
  2. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Tell it to OBL, Qadaffi, and Pakistan. No doubt you prefer the president to wear a cod piece and say tough things like "dead or alive" after growing up the privileged son/grandson of a president and senator. The one have we now lived and worked in a south side Chicago slum. I think he knows his way around bad characters.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    For five years, I am just sick at this obscene and obnoxious habit people have of presenting foreign policy as though it is made up of "exactly what Obama is doing in each situation" or "Waaaar! Threats! Invasion!"

    It is just so insipid, such an insult to everyone's intelligence, and a poor substitute for being able to defend the actual foreign policy failures of this President.

    If Obama had any respect from Putin, just asking congenially when we could pick him up would be enough to make it happen. Instead, Putin sees more gain in showing up Obama than in doing him a solid.

    What would that tell you about the standing of things in, say, your neighborhood, or your office? The same basic social concepts apply in diplomacy.

    Now, I don't mind Obama blowing off the meeting, because at least it is follow through on what he said would happen. But that said, it isn't as strong a position as being willing to look him in the eye and tell him he is unhappy about the Snowden situation.

    Remember Tim Pawlentey trying that "ObamneyCare" line, but then on stage, with Romney looking him in the eye, smiling, he couldn't repeat it? That is sort of how I imagine Obama trying to face up to Putin about a disagreement.

    Also... lol @ list of "tell its". The OBL raid was the easiest call any President has ever had to make, frankly, and it apparently took vetoing his own advisors, handlers one might say. As for sticking it to Pakistan, this would be the Pakistan we shrugged and allowed to torture and imprison one of the assets that put us onto bin Laden?
  4. Row6
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    You poor thing. having the vapors this early in the day?

    You obviously have no idea about what the choices were on getting OBL or the approach we have had toward Pakistan - that day in particular - or since Obama took office, which was a radical departure from Bush, and one he ran on as a candidate. Read up a little, then come back. I'm kind of busy or I'd school you more.
  5. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, so this guy is really Dirty Harry, and not an empty chair ?

    If he really had nads vis-a-vis Puty, he would have given the middle finger to any additional unilateral nuke cuts while the Rooskies continue to re-arm, re-build, and re-tool, with impunity. Instead, his world apology tour and promise to make us a second-rate country for penance and amends, is his foreign policy.

    For a collection of historical fact about Barry's continuing weenieshishness when he should be Dirty Harrying (careful, it's from an apparent conservative source [but who else would notice ? :huh: ]):

    http://www.conservativedailynews.co...ves-others-will-be-nice-and-follow-suit-myth/
  6. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    No Mich, it really wasn't. The easy call in that situation is run a B-2, or possibly a drone, over the building and drop the biggest bomb it can carry on OBL's head and sort out the carnage later with DNA testing. Putting American lives at risk to ensure that we have proof that it is OBL and that we have gotten our target, raising the possiblity that the target can recover from the initial surprise of the attack and escape, all while hoping to obtain any available intelligence from the building is the hard call.

    Intriguing to see that you are so callous, indifferent, and nonchallant with the lives of American servicemembers. I can only hope that no President or military officer shares your view.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Easiest call any President ever has had to make, ever. There was literally nothing that could have been piled on the other end of the scale that would have budged the "killing bin Laden" scale off the ground. About the only thing would have been if one thought there was a chance of a nuclear strike by Pakistan against American basis in the Middle East or Western Europe, which of course, there was no credible chance of, for for a strike team after the world's most wanted man and in country for scant hours.

    Besides which, we should have actually been pushing Pakistan around on the subject of their obvious indifference to him having been hiding out in their country, not kissing their ass and crying their pardon for the intrusion.
  8. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Facepalm this whole freaking post. I'm not callous, indifferent, or nonchalant about the lives. The mission itself was not any of those, either before or after the order to go was given. What do you think those men train for? In fact, what do you think they'd have said if it had been a volunteer only mission? Confirming that kill was every bit as important as the kill itself. By calling it the "easiest" call, I should have clarified the "easiest" call that wasn't actually completely chickenpoop and confirmed the objective would be accomplished. I was giving Obama just that much benefit of the doubt and it gets thrown back in my face.

    BTW, callous, indifferent, nonchalant about their lives was the way that information was handled after the raid was accomplished. Good ole Joe Biden.
  9. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    There was no "apology tour" see Fact Check - it won't be on the "conservative daily news" (really?). Try the WaPo. Other than that you're dreaming about a comic book or maybe something you played on your desk with your action dolls during lunch.
  10. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    I'm really not wasting my time on one as poorly informed as you. Buh by.
  11. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    As I'm sure you know, the bombing option was favored by the Pentagon and presidential advisors. No doubt Obama risked the lives of Seals doing what he did but he also risked his reputation if another Carter-in-the-desert incident had followed. Fortunately it didn't, and here's to the Seals who brought it home and Obama for calling it.
  12. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    No Mich. You act like the call was, "Do we kill OBL or do we not?" Well, duh, that's easy. But that's not the call that a President makes. A President also makes the call among alternatives of how we do that mission. A President is presented with alternatives, here, one of which, I assure you, was a surgical air strike on that building, which would either have no risk of American lives or minimal risk. This was a high risk mission. It has nothing to do with whether those servicemembers would have volunteereed to do it anyway. The fact is being a SEAL means volunteering to put yourself into harms way, even on poor odds of survival. The point is it could have very well turned into a complete Mogadishu-style disaster if our intelligence about the building was wrong, if the plan was discovered, or any number of other variables, resulting in the deaths of every one of those SEALs and OBL getting away, again. And if that is what had happened, you would be sitting here, in your monday morning quarterback view, arguing, "Why didn't he just do an airstrike? 0bama doesn't know how to make decisions and it cost us OBL."
  13. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your tacit admission that your president is a queer . . . duck, and a wuss. And a girly boy. (This part addresses your second sentence, and makes more sense than it does).

    And he did not take his balls from the Puty game and go home. He doesn't have any.

    Wanna have some more fun ?
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  14. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Condi Rice:

  15. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    "Maybe" getting bin Laden was not the mission, so not sure why you think he should get points for bypassing strategies that couldn't offer better than a maybe, i.e. your B2.

    Yeah, there were risks to the men, but, look, risk of casualties is *intrinsic* in any military operation, so if your sole basis for stepping back and declaring an operation a tough call is that, then you basically have deconstructed it back down to "do you get bin Laden or not". I mean, is there a way to invade Europe in WWII other than to... invade? No. So if the risk of casualties is the sole consideration for whether to land on D-Day, it really is "maybe we should just call the whole thing off"?

    That isn't cavalier about the men's lives, it just recognizes the danger inherent in what they do. The risks to weigh is the risk of actual failure in the objective, or subsequent consequences, and neither of those risks even came close to outweighing the gain in going after him at that compound.
  16. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    You realize that makes absolutely zero sense, but still manages to say a lot about you?
  17. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    So . . . you do too is the best you got ? :laugh:

    I thought I summed you up quite nicely, actually.

    Er, your president, actually.
  18. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are missing the point, Mich.

    First, no, the risk of American casualties is no longer intrinsic in any military operation. That's why we have a proliferation of drones, flown by people who are flying them in combat arenas but going home to their houses at the end of their work day in the United States. Technology has completely changed warfare.

    Second, the manner in which we went after OBL in that compound did not just lead to getting OBL. It let to a wealth of intelligence on Al-Qaeda that would not have survived an air strike. There were those who were advocating that the outside possibility of obtaining such material is not worth the risk of OBL escaping, the prospect of unknown defenses, or any reason not within our intelligence that could have risked the lives of the SEALs that would not have been present in an air or drone strike. Like all on the ground urban warefar, the decision to go with the SEAL mission was infinetely higher risk that, in this case, offered a possibility of a higher reward, namely immediate confirmation of OBL's death (and the ability to dispose of his body) and the prospect of obtaining more intelligence, that ultimately proved correct.

    But that doesn't mean it was an "easy call." That is a hard call. Any time you place servicemembers lives at risk when you don't have to and can still "accomplish the mission," because of the possibility of a higher reward, it is a hard call.

    The easy call is authorize a sortie and call it a win until a video of him shows up on the Internet.
  19. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    Really? No apology tour?

    How about Strasbourg, April 3, 2009:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-obama-strasbourg-town-hall

    Or how about Cairo on June 4, 2009:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/video/Pre...-the-Muslim-World-from-Cairo-Egypt#transcript

    Those came from the official White House transcripts of his speech. They're just a few exerpts but there are many, many more. Feel free to look up more quotes from his apology tours.
  20. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    You get 4 Pinnochios.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/02/obamas_apology_tour.html

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