Trouble in the nanny state

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

That's a very admirable accomplishment for all of your family. I didn't have it as hard as you but I worked tobacco at a young age; then got an early morning paper route a day before I turned 13. Went to work at Winn-Dixie at age 16. My sister worked as did my younger sister when she came along. It was just a normal part of life during that time for kids to get jobs.

My mother has a lady that helps take care of her who is a single mother. This woman also has another job and her son comes over and does yard work or anything else we need him to do. He is a hard worker and also plays football. She keeps a tight reign on her kids with one now going into the service with the intention of becoming a surgeon. We know it's hard on her at times and try to help her in other small ways but the biggest thing is she is not sitting around watching the world go by.

The common denominator here is instilling character and the importance of getting an education in children at an early age. Those who have no character won't instill it in their children and the welfare beat goes on and on. It's probably too late to save this culture.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

That's a very admirable accomplishment for all of your family. I didn't have it as hard as you but I worked tobacco at a young age; then got an early morning paper route a day before I turned 13. Went to work at Winn-Dixie at age 16. My sister worked as did my younger sister when she came along. It was just a normal part of life during that time for kids to get jobs.

Worked Tobacco? I n a way I can relate to that. As a teenager in the late 60's i had some friends get shipped to their grand parents tobacco farm during the summer. They hated it with a passion and made the most of their education.

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by northgagator

Worked Tobacco? I n a way I can relate to that. As a teenager in the late 60's i had some friends get shipped to their grand parents tobacco farm during the summer. They hated it with a passion and made the most of their education.

The first time I recall working in it was when we helped replant a field by hand. Then I handed to the stringers a few times during the summer while staying with my grandmother. I started picking/cropping it as a teenage and hated every day I ever spent in a tobacco patch. Six dollars a day and that was being picked up before daylight and working till the evening.

[lacuna]

Loved this e-mail. Thanks, Darth.

Originally Posted by DarthG8Rv2

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX , Nov 18, 2011

PUT ME IN CHARGE . . .

... If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov't welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

Sensible advice and commentary all through it but the last part is slam dunk, no brainer truth.

I have a friend who is severely disabled. She has been crippled and deformed with the worst case of rheumatoid arthritis I have ever seen, and receiving SSDI for approximately 10 years. I don't begrudge her this check but I admit it galls me when I hear her say she can't do or buy something before the end of the month when she "gets paid." I have never said anything to her about her turn of phrase but grit my teeth and likely wince. Have not retorted but sorely tempted to ask, "----, what are you being paid for?"

In my mind, someone who lives in Section 8 housing, is eligible for food stamps (and uses them), and relies on the generosity of others - isn't being paid. People are paid for what they produce. This person, and too many just like her, is a charity case living on public assistance. No vote.

I feel better now.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by gatornana

Our society used to vilify young moms....it led to exploitation, abuse and forcing young mothers to put their child up for adoption.

We may have swung too far in the opposite direction, but to go back isn't the answer either.

Following your train of thought here, should society vilify young men and their behavior?

YES

[dynogator]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

The common denominator here is instilling character and the importance of getting an education in children at an early age. Those who have no character won't instill it in their children and the welfare beat goes on and on. It's probably too late to save this culture.

The percentage of the US population on welfare is about 4.1%. Of those, almost all of them work (requirement of welfare.) Even if everyone of the 4.1% is a horrible parent (ridiculous assumption) you figure they're going to take down our entire culture?

I have more faith in the American people, I guess.

[dynogator]

Originally Posted by lacuna

In my mind, someone who lives in Section 8 housing, is eligible for food stamps (and uses them), and relies on the generosity of others - isn't being paid. People are paid for what they produce. This person, and too many just like her, is a charity case living on public assistance. No vote.

I feel better now.

Well, no one can ever call you a liberal again.

[lacuna]

Originally Posted by dynogator

Well, no one can ever call you a liberal again.

The assumptions of people who have pigeon holed me a "liberal" say more about them than me. The strident, self absorbed cons who make those assumptions can't understand or tolerate the fact an independent freethinking libertarian could possibly criticize a conservative/teapartier and be anything other than a liberal/leftist.

To quote one of the more strident ones: "Pitiful"

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by dynogator

The percentage of the US population on welfare is about 4.1%. Of those, almost all of them work (requirement of welfare.) Even if everyone of the 4.1% is a horrible parent (ridiculous assumption) you figure they're going to take down our entire culture?

I have more faith in the American people, I guess.

Any link to the 4% number? I can't believe all the billions only goes to 4% of the population.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

Any link to the 4% number? I can't believe all the billions only goes to 4% of the population.

My instinct is that the number refers to a specific program out of the almost innumerably overlapping and redundant programs for this or that.

[dynogator]

Slap whatever political label on it you want, but denying someone the right to vote because they're forced by a disease to rely on public assistance strikes me as cruel and punitive.

[dynogator]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

Any link to the 4% number? I can't believe all the billions only goes to 4% of the population.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

[lacuna]

Originally Posted by dynogator

Slap whatever political label on it you want, but denying someone the right to vote because they're forced by a disease to rely on public assistance strikes me as cruel and punitive.

It's harsh but I wouldn't call it cruel or punitive. The truism that democracy is doomed when the people learn they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury has been attributed to several different sources but whoever spoke it, spoke truth. We are doomed.

I don't think it is possible for such a change to be implemented as law before this nation self destructs, but I would hope the lessons will be remembered in the future.

[mocgator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

That sounds good but it really doesn't flesh out any answers. Do you propose to just cut off all of the money in one fell swoop, and if you do how far have you looked into the future? Actions always have consequences no matter who the actions are implemented by.

Very very simple human nature. If you subsidize poor behavior and decision making.... You get poor behavior and decision making. Wow. What a surprise.

Cap welfare and WIC. If you can't pay for your kid it's child abuse. I'd rather spend a ton in quality foster care than on thelosers having kids for the money. Kids that will in large percentages be a drag on our society. It's simple math.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by dynogator

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Funny in the definition of welfare the link lists "food stamps", then in the body it cites 46 million on food stamps, then list % of US on welfare as 4.1%. Sorry but 46.7 million divide by 300 million is about 15%, not 4.1%.

"Welfare is the organized public or private social services for the assistance of disadvantaged groups. Aid could include general Welfare payments, health care through Medicaid, food stamps, special payments for pregnant women and young mothers, and federal and state housing benefits"

It also notes 4.5 million Americans on welfare, Hell there are prob 4.3 million people on Medicaid in NY state alone. Talk about massaging the data.

[DarthG8Rv2]

Originally Posted by dynogator

Slap whatever political label on it you want, but denying someone the right to vote because they're forced by a disease to rely on public assistance strikes me as cruel and punitive.

In the past , only Land Owners could vote . I think this should be reinstituted .

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by mocgator

Very very simple human nature. If you subsidize poor behavior and decision making.... You get poor behavior and decision making. Wow. What a surprise.

Cap welfare and WIC. If you can't pay for your kid it's child abuse. I'd rather spend a ton in quality foster care than on thelosers having kids for the money. Kids that will in large percentages be a drag on our society. It's simple math.

Don't we already cap both welfare and WIC? Do you really think the complex social issues which have arisen due welfare and the way it was implemented are so easily solved? As I stated earlier I wonder how far down the road you have really looked.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by DarthG8Rv2

In the past , only Land Owners could vote . I think this should be reinstituted .

I could agree to only limiting it to citizens who pay income taxes.

[theorangebluewinagain]

Pay welfar women $2500 to have tubal ligations.

[rajinGator]

Originally Posted by T3goalie

I agree with you 100%.

The current answers create dependency, entitlement mentality, illiteracy, high incarceration rates, sh!t schools, little to no opportunity, high crime rates...

The future for these economic slaves is children and grandchildren living in the same sh!tholes, in the same sh!t schools and continued generations of illiteracy and ignorance.

Actions have consequences see Detroit, see Chicago...the consequences of today's lunacy are decades and generations of the hopeless souls who know no better and live hand to mouth on subsidy, low employment or crime with little to no chance at upward mobility. They represent a guarantied voting block for their Masters who give them morsels to live on while the real buying power diminishes daily. Those who claim to love and care create an insidious system of control and slums. Answers? that is a joke. Today"s Answers are the cause of the problem. With love like that who needs hate? Brave new world indeed!

Boom

What we need and IMO beginning to see are younger, truer conservatives who aren't intimidated by the media and can articulate this message. Not these sappy Pubs with low convictions and understanding of the conservative ideology we've seen the last 20 years.