The New GOP

[gatornana]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

You have it all wrong. He isn't advocating racism despite your attempt to put words in his mouth. Rather, he is advocating property rights. In this day and age if you prohibit a certain race from your establishment you have an increased likelihood of going out of business. The market will decide - and most will not frequent such a place.

He may claim he isn't racist however his notion of "property rights" in conjuction with how business operates allows for discrimination.

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/a...te-businesses/

[baygator1]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

You have it all wrong. He isn't advocating racism despite your attempt to put words in his mouth. Rather, he is advocating property rights. In this day and age if you prohibit a certain race from your establishment you have an increased likelihood of going out of business. The market will decide - and most will not frequent such a place.

Mental midgets can't get their minds around that. They need nanny gubmit to tell them what's right and wrong.

[gatornana]

Originally Posted by baygator1

Mental midgets can't get their minds around that. They need nanny gubmit to tell them what's right and wrong.

Does business have a history prior to discrimination laws, civil rights act and all that of operating in a fair, anti-discriminatory fashion? If they did, they why do we have these laws?

[GatorAvatar]

If the conservatives think the human race is collectively smart and honorable that we will do the right thing without some form of government control then lord have mercy. You guys are living in fools paradise. Property rights should only mean that no-one can claim your property or that you can do whatever you want with the property without harming others, carrying out immoral acts or being discriminatory. Without government laws, there would be racism (by all races) there would be immoral activities (bestiality acts, dog fighting), prostitution (child trafficking) etc all happening with reckless abandon. Stop trying to paint the human race as a collective moral society, after all we are still dealing with the effects of Hitler, apartheid/slavery/civil rights. Heck we went on a killing rampage of the natives and destroyed their families not long ago.

[oaklandroadie]

Conversely, liberals think humans can be made good with laws and regulation.

[rivergator]

I don't think opposing the civil rights laws that forbid discrimination at restaurants, etc., is racist. Not at all. It's perfectly in keeping with the libertarian idea that it's none of the govt's business who I serve or don't serve.
But I don't think it's something that most Americans believe in.
And Ron Paul's name did appear on the masthead of a newsletter that featured a lot of pretty questionable racial stuff. He claimed no connection, but his name was on it.

[Tim85]

Originally Posted by rivergator

I don't think opposing the civil rights laws that forbid discrimination at restaurants, etc., is racist. Not at all. It's perfectly in keeping with the libertarian idea that it's none of the govt's business who I serve or don't serve.
But I don't think it's something that most Americans believe in.
And Ron Paul's name did appear on the masthead of a newsletter that featured a lot of pretty questionable racial stuff. He claimed no connection, but his name was on it.

Well said and very true, River.

[brainstorm]

Originally Posted by rivergator

I don't think opposing the civil rights laws that forbid discrimination at restaurants, etc., is racist. Not at all. It's perfectly in keeping with the libertarian idea that it's none of the govt's business who I serve or don't serve.
But I don't think it's something that most Americans believe in.
And Ron Paul's name did appear on the masthead of a newsletter that featured a lot of pretty questionable racial stuff. He claimed no connection, but his name was on it.

Agree.

[brainstorm]

Originally Posted by gatornana

He may claim he isn't racist however his notion of "property rights" in conjuction with how business operates allows for discrimination.

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/a...te-businesses/

No doubt. And I am not saying I agree with it. But, his position isn't to advocate for racism. Rather, he values property rights and doesn't want the government telling us what we can do with our property. That position would certainly allow for a business owner to refuse to serve someone based on anything he didn't like - race, sexual preference, school affiliation ("ain't serving no Dawgs"), place of origin ("ain't servin' no yankees"), etc.

Again, I would not do something like this but there are some who would.

If Rand rises up and becomes a national POTUS contender you can be sure the media and opposition will call him a racist.

That said, this is one of the issues where hard core libertarians may have to consider their beliefs in the context of the real world.

[rivergator]

GOP admits big problems:

The Republican National Committee concedes in a sprawling report Monday that the GOP is seen as the party of “stuffy old men” and needs to change its ways.
Among the RNC’s proposed fixes: enacting comprehensive immigration reform, addressing middle-class economic anxieties head on and condensing a presidential primary process that saw Mitt Romney get battered for months ahead of the general election.

The report devotes many pages to the need to better connect with minority, female and young voters. Comprehensive immigration reform is a critical first step, it says.

“Asked to describe Republicans, they said that the Party is ‘scary,’ ‘narrow minded,’ and ‘out of touch’ and that we were a Party of ‘stuffy old men,’” it states.

Though it steers clear of the gay marriage debate, the report also says Republicans need to be more tolerant of gays if it is to have any chance among younger voters. People younger than 30 cast 5 million more votes for Barack Obama than Romney, it says.
“Already, there is a generational difference within the conservative movement about issues involving the treatment and the rights of gays — and for many younger voters, these issues are a gateway into whether the Party is a place they want to be,” it says.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...#ixzz2NtaIUs22

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by oaklandroadie

Conversely, liberals think humans can be made good with laws and regulation.

And as we can clearly see, badness is enhanced by laws and regulation.

[rivergator]

Another analysis of the RNC's self report:

Normally the RNC’s focus is more on infrastructure and staff than policy, which is left to politicians to chart. But the party’s standing with Latino voters has gotten so dangerously low that the RNC’s report openly begs Republicans to change their position in defiance of the party’s own 2012 platform.

Much of the report is about encouraging Republicans to listen not just to Republican minorities, but to reach out to black, Hispanic, and Asian American voters in their own communities. The reason: arithmetic.

The RNC’s report doesn’t come out for marriage equality, but it warns that the party needs to move left on gay issues, not so much because gays are an important voting bloc, but because intolerance scares off other groups of voters, too.

“The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself,” its authors write. “We have become expert in how to provide ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us on every issue. Instead of driving around in circles on an ideological cul-de-sac, we need a Party whose brand of conservatism invites and inspires new people to visit us.”

The RNC report makes a careful distinction between federal Republicans — bad! — and state Republicans — good! The GOP currently holds 30 governorships and many of them, like Chris Christie in New Jersey and John Kasich in Ohio, have been both moving to the center and gaining in popularity recently. They stand in stark contrast to House Republicans, who have more conservative constituencies and typically have been more inflexible in their views.

Less than year after nominating a millionaire investor who proclaimed that “corporations are people,” the RNC is concerned that the party has become too closely tied with wealthy interests.

“We have to blow the whistle at corporate malfeasance and attack corporate welfare,” the report says. “We should speak out when CEOs receive tens of millions of dollars in retirement packages but middle-class workers have not had a meaningful raise in years.”

link

[MastaG8r]

Originally Posted by gatornana

He may claim he isn't racist however his notion of "property rights" in conjuction with how business operates allows for discrimination.

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/a...te-businesses/

Statement from Rand Paul on the Civil Rights Act of 1964:

I believe we should work to end all racism in American society and staunchly defend the inherent rights of every person. I have clearly stated in prior interviews that I abhor racial discrimination and would have worked to end segregation. Even though this matter was settled when I was 2, and no serious people are seeking to revisit it except to score cheap political points, I unequivocally state that I will not support any efforts to repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Let me be clear: I support the Civil Rights Act because I overwhelmingly agree with the intent of the legislation, which was to stop discrimination in the public sphere and halt the abhorrent practice of segregation and Jim Crow laws. As I have said in previous statements, sections of the Civil Rights Act were debated on Constitutional grounds when the legislation was passed. Those issues have been settled by federal courts in the intervening years.

My opponent’s statement on MSNBC Wednesday that I favor repeal of the Civil Rights Act was irresponsible and knowingly false. I hope he will correct the record and retract his claims.

The issue of civil rights is one with a tortured history in this country. We have made great strides, but there is still work to be done to ensure the great promise of Liberty is granted to all Americans.

This much is clear: The federal government has far overreached in its power grabs. Just look at the recent national healthcare schemes, which my opponent supports. The federal government, for the first time ever, is mandating that individuals purchase a product. The federal government is out of control, and those who love liberty and value individual and state’s rights must stand up to it.

These attacks prove one thing for certain: the liberal establishment is desperate to keep leaders like me out of office, and we are sure to hear more wild, dishonest smears during this campaign.

[gatorchris]

The short term goal for the GOP has to be reaching out effectively to the hispanic voters. Its a fast growing segment in many red states, and without it you can give up ever electing a president past 2020. Without it Texas flips to blue at some point down the road, which means youre done without flipping say... California. Good luck with that.

I dont think too much needs to change within the party, they just need to reprioritize things. Immigration over gay marriage. The economy over abortion. Focus on the fiscal not the social. They will need to show that its not just lip service to get into office though, which the current primaries renders all but impossible. I cant stand Rick Perry, but people need to listen to his views on immigration.

[MichiGator2002]

Note to Priebus -- when liberals are running around with your big egghead report saying "see I told you so", the report is a) wrong from its inception, and b) never should have issued.

[ufbeta]

Originally Posted by GatorAvatar

Did you know Rand Paul said its ok for businesses to discriminate based on race and disability. He said government has no business forcing businesses to install ramps for disabled people. He calls that "big government". That man should never be elected President. Ever.

That's ridiculous. Not at all what he's about. He just believes that it's my right as a ski shop owner not to have to spend 50k on an elevator if I choose to rent a second story building so that disabled people have access to my equipment. If the general public thinks I'm being discriminatory and/or I misjudge the amount of disabled skiers there are, my business failure is on me.

[HudsonGator]

I am sorry, Rand is an idiot for even bringing this issue up. This is an area that has been settled since the early 1960's, why go there?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Note to Priebus -- when liberals are running around with your big egghead report saying "see I told you so", the report is a) wrong from its inception, and b) never should have issued.

Clearly, there are members of the party who believe that it has to make some fundamental changes if it wants to stay relevant.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Clearly, there are members of the party who believe that it has to make some fundamental changes if it wants to stay relevant.

No, there are spineless jellyfish who don't realize that if they don't think they are actually right, they are wasting their time. Maybe their careers.

What the GOP needs, what makes those "happy warriors" people envy and long for tick... they think they are right! I never get the impression that the GOP leadership actually believes in anything resembling actual conservatism, federalism, libertarianism, and think they have to convince other people that they don't.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

No, there are spineless jellyfish who don't realize that if they don't think they are actually right, they are wasting their time. Maybe their careers.

What the GOP needs, what makes those "happy warriors" people envy and long for tick... they think they are right! I never get the impression that the GOP leadership actually believes in anything resembling actual conservatism, federalism, libertarianism, and think they have to convince other people that they don't.

Let us repeat:

“The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself,” its authors write. “We have become expert in how to provide ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us on every issue. Instead of driving around in circles on an ideological cul-de-sac, we need a Party whose brand of conservatism invites and inspires new people to visit us.”

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2Nv1HtY2z