The New GOP

[Matthanuf06]

Rand is the man. Similar love of freedom to his dad, but a far more skilled politician.

Freedom is popular. You just gotta know how to get the public to buy in, no pun intended.

A freedom platform would capture nearly everyone on the right and begin to pick away at the left. There are plenty of "democrats" that embrace some fiscally conservative ideals, but constant war drums and religious based social policies has pushed them to vote D. Attracting them is possobls

[JohnC1908]

Rand proved a lot to me last week. He can really establish himself over the next couple of years and hopefully beat out all the dead weight in the Republican Party come 2016.

[108]

Originally Posted by surfn1080

govt is working for the people now?

it isn't, and that's the point

if it remains the status quo in regards to this, then Rand is just giving lip service

i respected his father for his stance on Corporatism, but Rand has already shown he doesn't have the same integrity

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I think any competitive GOP is going to have to be comfortable rhetorically with the idea that the market isnt the solution to all problems, and may actually cause certain problems and conflict with deeply held values and traditions. This would seem to entail a certain embrace of "gov't" solutions that are distinct and functionally more appealing than liberal ones. You can't run against the New Deal anymore, because the Democrats aren't New Deal Democrats anymore. They've embraced markets and more or less accepted some of the underlying conservative assumptions over the last 30 years about the role of capital, finance, the usefulness of trade unionism and the limits of gov't action, while refusing to negotiate the total dismantlement of the welfare state or the outright destruction of unions. I think the existence of the welfare state and the necessity for gov't role in food, healthcare, mitigation of poverty etc has been more or less settled for the near to mid future.

Going libertarian might seem more viscerally appealing, but its not the ticket to national-level electoral success. Basically, to win you've got to move the Democrats left on some issues, make them take up outlier positions that arent popular with the public.

What are you saying? Stick to social issues?

I think it should be the exact opposite. Ditch the social issues and focus on facts. I also think your ascessment of the (D)s is wildly optimistic re. their supposed rejection of the New Deal. This administration is the most FDR'esque we've had since Johnson.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

What are you saying? Stick to social issues?

I think it should be the exact opposite. Ditch the social issues and focus on facts. I also think your ascessment of the (D)s is wildly optimistic re. their supposed rejection of the New Deal. This administration is the most FDR'esque we've had since Johnson.

No, what I'm saying is that "social issues" are conflated with the culture wars by the current GOP. God, gays, etc. They should absolutely ditch that. There are other ways to go after "social issues" that don't involve legislating morality, fighting the culture wars or proscribing religion as a cure. So, support of marriage and families could be done as more of an economic & religion neutral approach. Does this involve the gov't doing something? Yes. Does it involve the gov't telling people what to do? No. Personally, I don't think social conservativism is as divorcable from economic conservativism as some people seem to think.

No, the Democrats have not entirely rejected the New Deal/Great Society, which I said. They will defend SS, Medicare, and many of the legacy programs to the death. But that New Deal Democratic coalition hasnt existed since LBJ. Carter, Clinton and Obama really are more representative of a "newer" Left. One that is less accomodating of labor (even if they still require their votes), more accomodating of high finance/Wall Street & capital, and more accepting of neoliberal economic ideas and privatization in non-legacy areas, and overall more skeptical of big government action. They've absorbed the realities of the Reagan revolution, while defending some of their signature achievements, and helping to advance liberal policy goals.

[T3goalie]

Jindal, Rand, Johnson are in the minority with the GOP and RNC because they want to seed more power to the individual.

Rhetoric aside, the GOP, like the DNC, wants centralized power. The major difference is who is at the controls. They critique the other party for poor behavior and turn a blind eye to the same malfeasance of their own. It is a simple game. Follow the Money. It never lies.

[MichiGator2002]

If conservatives and libertarians could reach detente around the idea that the arena for the "social issues" is at the state and local level, to coalesce around federalism and agree that none of those social issues are the federal government's business, they would have a coalition capable of fighting back.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

If conservatives and libertarians could reach detente around the idea that the arena for the "social issues" is at the state and local level, to coalesce around federalism and agree that none of those social issues are the federal government's business, they would have a coalition capable of fighting back.

Hear, hear!

[baygator1]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

When John McCain blasted Rand Paul for actually standing up and filibustering and breaking the the good ole boy rules of the Senate I checked McCain off my list of conservatives. Out with the old and in with the new!

McCain is just another institutionalized, establishment relic.

[baygator1]

Originally Posted by T3goalie

Jindal, Rand, Johnson are in the minority with the GOP and RNC because they want to seed more power to the individual.

Rhetoric aside, the GOP, like the DNC, wants centralized power. The major difference is who is at the controls. They critique the other party for poor behavior and turn a blind eye to the same malfeasance of their own. It is a simple game. Follow the Money. It never lies.

Very well said.

[g8trjax]

Politicians don't trust the little people to make the' correct' decisions to live our lives as WE see fit.

[bluelang]

Rand Paul believes it should be legal to disallow black people from eating in your restaurant. I'd love to know how many of you embrace that particular brand of "freedom."

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by 108

it isn't, and that's the point

if it remains the status quo in regards to this, then Rand is just giving lip service

i respected his father for his stance on Corporatism, but Rand has already shown he doesn't have the same integrity

I cannot help but laugh that you bring up anyone's integrity with you support and voted for prez b.o.

[co_gator89]

The GOP would do themselves a huge favor by embracing non-interventionism and distancing themselves from the Iraq War. The Bush admin ruined any credibility the GOP had left on foreign policy even though the Demorats pretty much gave it to them. Rand Paul is a breath of fresh air.

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by surfn1080

govt is working for the people now?

LMAO- Good question surf. My answer would be that for every government worker "serving" his fellow man, there are 10 "serving their own self interests" studying their pension plan payouts weekly.

The "snowball" as desribed in the book about Warren Buffett's investment philosophy certainly applies to the growth of government and government services at the local, state and federal level with few exceptions.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Rand Paul believes it should be legal to disallow black people from eating in your restaurant. I'd love to know how many of you embrace that particular brand of "freedom."

About time someone cares about property rights

[108]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

I cannot help but laugh that you bring up anyone's integrity with you support and voted for prez b.o.

Yes I'd rather vote for a center left D then an R given the choice

[108]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

About time someone cares about property rights

I'm guessing the potential racist business owner doesn't mind taking advantage of all the public infrastructure that all races pay into that provide him the opportunity to have a successful business

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by 108

Yes I'd rather vote for a center left D then an R given the choice

the thought that your prezb.o. is center left is laughable

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Rand Paul believes it should be legal to disallow black people from eating in your restaurant. I'd love to know how many of you embrace that particular brand of "freedom."

No problem whatsoever. My guess is he also has no problem with those opposed to such policies protesting said establishment, boycotting said establishment and engaging in a media campaign to spread the word about the idiot who was foolish enough to innitiate such a policy. It's the beauty of our system. You are free to say what you want and we are free to judge you by those actions.