I don't know when it happened. . .

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

There's no two ways around it, if you are saying the team "choked" then the logic follows that the players' "choked" which necessarily makes them "chokers." If the players didn't (allegedly) "choke" who did?

Realy?
I misspelled "really". By your logic I am a poor speller.
Or perhaps, in that circumstance, I just misspelled a word.

p.s.--- would it be "misspelled" or "misspelt"? I think I just killed my own analogy! LOL!!!!

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Yes, I made the contention that we have lost a mental edge. So, I guess the latter would undermine my suggestion that we ever had one. Is that the point you are trying to make?

Yes, there's no point in living the punishment of people expressing this every time we lose. Either you believed it to be the case from the beginning or you didn't, but there's no logical data that would suggest that there is a new trend there unless you don't take into consideration the quality of the opponent. If you believe it to be the case from the beginning, then these losses should not surprise you. In short, when do you believe that we had the mental edge against good teams on the road?

That said, I'm still confident that we can get that mental edge against good teams...at a neutral site. The loss to Arizona was positive because that's a win on a neutral court. The loss to Kentucky was similar...same with the loss to Missouri. We won the conference outright, so what do I care about a loss by a late collapse on the road?

There's a chance that our seed will penalize us for this, but there's a chance that we'll be penalized overall for not having a tough schedule. In the end, whether we are a #2, #3, or #4 we'll be judged by whether or not we get to Atlanta (from there seeding doesn't matter). Hope you have a blast in Nashville, help 'em bring home another championship. While I'm not big on SECT's, I've had a lot of fun at every one that I've gone to.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Realy?
I just misspelled 'really'. By your logic I am a poor speller.
Or perhaps, in that circumstance, I just misspelled a word.

Come on this is ridiculous. We're talking about "choke" vs. "choked" vs. "choker" not "misspelled" vs. "poor speller." If you have misspelled, then you are a misspeller (presumably we all are at some point in time). But that's a statement of fact, not a derogatory term. Are we really having this discussion?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

That's just it. Nobody used the term you quoted. "Choked" = derogatory. You betcha. Today's play and outcome merited derogatory description.

I give up, but I still disagree.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Yes, there's no point in living the punishment of people expressing this every time we lose. Either you believed it to be the case from the beginning or you didn't, but there's no logical data that would suggest that there is a new trend there unless you don't take into consideration the quality of the opponent. If you believe it to be the case from the beginning, then these losses should not surprise you. In short, when do you believe that we had the mental edge against good teams on the road?

Because the season is a fluid entity, with ebbs and flows, or peaks and valleys. Not so coincidentally, the valleys have occurred exclusively away from home.

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

That said, I'm still confident that we can get that mental edge against good teams...at a neutral site. The loss to Arizona was positive because that's a win on a neutral court. The loss to Kentucky was similar...same with the loss to Missouri. We won the conference outright, so what do I care about a loss by a late collapse on the road?

+1 agree on all accounts, except that I care much about today's loss. IMO, we missed out on an opportunity to exorcise a demon, as well as solidifying our seed (leaning more toward a number two, that what is more probably a three, and possibly a four).

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

There's a chance that our seed will penalize us for this, but there's a chance that we'll be penalized overall for not having a tough schedule.

Also a good point and I agree. There will almost certainly be an SEC stigma with this year's tourney seeding.

[gator07]

Is NBN having a meltdown or what? Sheesh.

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by gator07

Is NBN having a meltdown or what? Sheesh.

This isn't a meltdown. If you want to look for a meltdown, start a thread on Catspause asking them why they've only won one national title in 15 years when the GATORS have won two.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Yes, there's no point in living the punishment of people expressing this every time we lose. Either you believed it to be the case from the beginning or you didn't, but there's no logical data that would suggest that there is a new trend there unless you don't take into consideration the quality of the opponent. If you believe it to be the case from the beginning, then these losses should not surprise you. In short, when do you believe that we had the mental edge against good teams on the road?

Well, the other side of the coin is that you are putting no merit into how we were playing in our road victories, nor are you willing to presume that a team improves over the course of a season. I saw a team playing very, very good basketball during the bulk of its SEC schedule... including on the road. I extrapolated from what I watched that the team had a mind-set of burying its opposition when it had a lead, imposing relentless defense, playing smart and unselfish basketball, starting games and halves with intensity and out-hustling whomever it played.
I did not extrapolate that many of those attributes would be negated when playing better opposition, and/or reversed in the waning minutes.
Many of those ideals can and should be done of opponent or venue. The results may not be 30-point victories, but you can not convince me that the team we watched during the final minues at Mizzou or the last 8 minutes today... did those same things it had earlier in the season.
And when a team plays contrary to how it had earlier in the season... and in some cases, even how it playedearlier in that very game, you have to look at the team. It can not be all about the opponent.
And while we are at it... let's be honest. We are not talking about world-beater here when we discuss this season's versions of mizzou, ut and uk.
This team is not playing like it had earlier in the year. If you disagree.... so be it.
I hope I am right, as at least my contention provides hope of a return. Whereas your suggestion hopes we find something we have not had all year.

[regurgigator]

I think the reason we crushed a lot of teams this season had more to do with our defense than our offense. Yes, hitting a bunch of threes in some of those games helped , but I think our great defense was helping to feed some of that.

Although we're still playing very good defense most of the time, I'm still not seeing the "connected" team defense we displayed earlier in the year. My perception today was also that our guards (mostly Rosario and sometimes Wilbekin - not Boynton) got beaten off the dribble (without a screen) more than usual, which makes the help defense even harder to provide.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm still optimistic that we'll get that suffocating team defense back by Tourney time.

I'd like to see Yeguete start subbing into the game sooner - like he did earlier in the year, 2 to 3 minutes into the game - so we can hit the other teams hard with our best defense pretty quickly out of the gate.

[WESGATORS]

Give me the three road wins that most impressed you this season. The ones where we had the mental edge over our opponents.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Whereas your suggestion hopes we find something we have not had all year.

We don't need to have that something that we haven't had all year. Arizona, Missouri, Tennessee, and Kentucky are all wins on a neutral court. Arkansas was without Yeguete; that leaves only the Kansas State game. And many chalk that up to a road game the same as last year's game was a home game for us. Short of playing Indiana in Indianapolis (that would suck). I think we'll be fine.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Come on this is ridiculous. We're talking about "choke" vs. "choked" vs. "choker" not "misspelled" vs. "poor speller." If you have misspelled, then you are a misspeller (presumably we all are at some point in time). But that's a statement of fact, not a derogatory term. Are we really having this discussion?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

WES,

Are you really suggesting that you do not see a difference between stating that the team "choked" versus these guys are "chokers"?
Are you really trying to suggest these are synonymous statements, or are you just being argumentative?

I can give you a personal example if you wish.... and a sports one. When I was a kid, I played competitive tennis. I was ranked realtively high in the state of Florida, and played a ton of tourneys. I was typically unphased by pressure. In a semi-final once I played a highly seeded kid, but one I was better than. I was beating him when he called a ball out that I knew was in. We argued and a line judge was called to the match. The commotion drew spectators to the court. My opponent got fired up, and for reasons I do not know... I froze. I played awful from that moment on. He broke me, won the set and the match. I choked.
But I was not a "choker".
I was not defined by that match or moment. But the decription fit how I played on that occassion.

See the difference?

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

There's a chance that our seed will penalize us for this, but there's a chance that we'll be penalized overall for not having a tough schedule. In the end, whether we are a #2, #3, or #4 we'll be judged by whether or not we get to Atlanta (from there seeding doesn't matter). Hope you have a blast in Nashville, help 'em bring home another championship. While I'm not big on SECT's, I've had a lot of fun at every one that I've gone to.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

I don't think we'll be as low as a #4 seed, but I imagine there will one pretty ticked off #1 seed if they're scheduled (assuming chalk prevails) to have to face us as a #4.


Did anyone see how angry Jay Bilas seemed to be at the Gators for how we ended that game? He'd fit right in here


Speaking of significant trends over the season. The only significant trend I see is that we:
(1) played incredible defense early in the season before the 5 games during the holiday season.
(2) During the holiday season when we weren't playing regularly, it seemed like we lost some of our defensive intensity.
(3) After the holiday season, I thought we got that intensity and "connected" team defense, as Billy called it, back.
(4) Then, I thought we lost it again when Yeguete started slowing up due to the knee problems that ultimately led to him getting surgery a couple of games later.
(5????) With Yeguete working his way back into the lineup, I'm looking for the trend to go up again!!!

[WESGATORS]

It's one thing for you to acknowledge that you "choked" - but it's entirely something else for someone else to label that you choked. That's the difference. The rest is semantics, in my opinion. But I've already given that others may have a different opinion than me...no problem.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

Speaking of significant trends over the season. The only significant trend I see is that we:
(1) played incredible defense early in the season before the 5 games during the holiday season.
(2) During the holiday season when we weren't playing regularly, it seemed like we lost some of our defensive intensity.
(3) After the holiday season, I thought we got that intensity and "connected" team defense, as Billy called it, back.
(4) Then, I thought we lost it again when Yeguete started slowing up due to the knee problems that ultimately led to him getting surgery a couple of games later.
(5????) With Yeguete working his way back into the lineup, I'm looking for the trend to go up again!!!

I hadn't noticed it to the extent that you described, but it makes sense. When our team is at its best Yeguete is at his best. I don't believe this to be true of any of our other players.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

It's one thing for you to acknowledge that you "choked" - but it's entirely something else for someone else to label that you choked. That's the difference. The rest is semantics, in my opinion. But I've already given that others may have a different opinion than me...no problem.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

With all due respect, that makes no sense.
If you are able to recognize that a person/team can "choke" and not be a "choker"--- what the hell difference does it make who says it????
Let's move on.

[akaGatorhoops]

WES....
Thanks for the "rep". Funny comment!
Going to bed... adios!
I think we can agree, we both share some optimism despite today's outcome.
I think we will get back what we had. You think we never had it and don't need it.
If either of us is right... we will both be happy.

go gators!

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

With all due respect, that makes no sense.
If you are able to recognize that a person/team can "choke" and not be a "choker"--- what the hell difference does it make who says it????
Let's move on.

If you choke, you are a choker, my point was about who is doing the labeling...but I agree, let's move on.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

I tried to rep Davis as well, but I was not permitted to do so.

It's all good, sometimes people need to disagree.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[adgator]

How about the glass is half full. OK we are dissapointed today but 1) we earned a full week of rest before we play in SEC tourney 2) WY gets another week to get in playing shape and get used to his brace 3) the player capability is here so odds are we see many players get on track......let's not forget we have one of if not the best coach in the country,we have been to the elite 8 for the past 2 years plus with 2 NC's with BD we know how to play come March Madness...by the way Prather either missed both Arizona or Kansas State with either a concussion or high ankle ankle sprain and from very early in the season Murph has been playing with bruised ribs(he will be playing in the NBA) and when we were playing Arizona and K-State Frazier was not a key part of the Gator rotation. So now we are healthy and get a full week to rest (without the 3 week Sat-Tues rotation. Again let's not forget UF is a very good to great MM team! I believe we will be ready to go far if not win it all!