Dont cut SS--expand it

[MichiGator2002]

I have wanted a social security tiered buyout as a way to wind down the program. Over a certain age, the program doesn't change, then at tiers of age you get bought out at decreasing percentages of whatever you have paid in -- not what you would expect to get on average, what you have actually paid in SS tax. Under, say 25, you get a sincere apology. I am not remotely qualified to reduce this to numerical form to even guess how much it would cost, but, really, that is the kind of deficit spending I could buy into, the kind that excuses dozens of billions in unfunded liabilities down the line.

[Burke]

SS is nothing but a welfare program for old people.

Young people being forced to support old people.

Young people who will be even more unable to support themselves when they get old because the pols are using their earnings now to buy the votes of seniors.

More wealth redistribution.

More destruction that will be used as an excuse for even more wealth redistribution which will cause even more destruction . . . and on and on into a death spiral of looting and destruction.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

I have wanted a social security tiered buyout as a way to wind down the program. Over a certain age, the program doesn't change, then at tiers of age you get bought out at decreasing percentages of whatever you have paid in -- not what you would expect to get on average, what you have actually paid in SS tax. Under, say 25, you get a sincere apology. I am not remotely qualified to reduce this to numerical form to even guess how much it would cost, but, really, that is the kind of deficit spending I could buy into, the kind that excuses dozens of billions in unfunded liabilities down the line.

An excellent proposal.

[108]

Burke being reflexive as always

Damn that savings program that many Americans actually need....yada yada yada

The problem with you Small Government folk is that you can't even accept the reality that a majority of people want a healthy social net

Instead of gutting it and unrealistically expecting everyone to make good decisions, lets improve it and make it more efficient

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by 108

Burke being reflexive as always

Damn that savings program that many Americans actually need....yada yada yada

The problem with you Small Government folk is that you can't even accept the reality that a majority of people want a healthy social net

Instead of gutting it and unrealistically expecting everyone to make good decisions, lets improve it and make it more efficient

That's way too pragmatic. Didn't you know this forum is for ideological fantasization?

[MichiGator2002]

We don't have a social safety net, we have a social wet nurse. We don't even have parens patriae anymore, we have parens helicopterus patriae. Retirement, by definition a luxury and not a right, can't by its nature be part of a *safety* net.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

I have wanted a social security tiered buyout as a way to wind down the program. Over a certain age, the program doesn't change, then at tiers of age you get bought out at decreasing percentages of whatever you have paid in -- not what you would expect to get on average, what you have actually paid in SS tax. Under, say 25, you get a sincere apology. I am not remotely qualified to reduce this to numerical form to even guess how much it would cost, but, really, that is the kind of deficit spending I could buy into, the kind that excuses dozens of billions in unfunded liabilities down the line.

THIS!

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

We don't have a social safety net, we have a social wet nurse. We don't even have parens patriae anymore, we have parens helicopterus patriae. Retirement, by definition a luxury and not a right, can't by its nature be part of a *safety* net.

Do you know even one single mother that's been able to become a productive member of the taxpaying middle class due to temporary government assistance? Because I do.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by 108

Burke being reflexive as always

Damn that savings program that many Americans actually need....yada yada yada

The problem with you Small Government folk is that you can't even accept the reality that a majority of people want a healthy social net

Instead of gutting it and unrealistically expecting everyone to make good decisions, lets improve it and make it more efficient

Please explain "healthy social net" when considering the facts about SS. Do you define healthy taxing at a rate 6.2 times what it was at inception on a max taxable approaching 4 times inflation?

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

[Minister_of_Information]

SS is not healthy. Is that supposed to be news?

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

We don't have a social safety net, we have a social wet nurse. We don't even have parens patriae anymore, we have parens helicopterus patriae. Retirement, by definition a luxury and not a right, can't by its nature be part of a *safety* net.

Exactly!

My grandfather was a retired E-9 could have easily lived off his retirement check. Instead he was paid with future generations benefits to receive the "PROMISE" of government rather than be part of a REAL SAFETY NET...

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

SS is not healthy. Is that supposed to be news?

Nope but many think by screwing the further generations more so those on and near retirement can continue to get paid makes it healthy somehow...

Just look at the history of how we make it "healthy" EVERY SINGLE TIME...

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

[Minister_of_Information]

Even the most primitive societies take it easy on the old folks after they're no longer capable of backbreaking labor. You know, feed them, let them hang around the fire and teach the kids how to carve flutes, tell stories, that kind of thing.

[Burke]

Reagan famously stated that we needed a safety net, and 25 years later we have Obamacare.

The lesson:

Once you accept the idea that it's okay to violate the rights of some for the benefit of others, it's Katie bar the door.

Accepting a little bit of socialism is like agreeing to be raped a little bit.

It's pragmatism, the idea that principles don't matter.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

Nope but many think by screwing the further generations more so those on and near retirement can continue to get paid makes it healthy somehow...

Just look at the history of how we make it "healthy" EVERY SINGLE TIME...

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

Well, that ain't me as I've always been in favor of paygo and individual accounts as opposed to the current pyramid scheme.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Even the most primitive societies take it easy on the old folks after they're no longer capable of backbreaking labor. You know, feed them, let them hang around the fire and teach the kids how to carve flutes, tell stories, that kind of thing.

No doubt. And it should be family first, followed by charity and local communities.

But that is not what SS does! It redistributes wealth from future generations and to a majority of people who do not need it (need is much different than want or even entitled)...

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Well, that ain't me as I've always been in favor of paygo and individual accounts as opposed to the current pyramid scheme.

And I would be fine with that. Once we are there we should also be able to allow people to opt out and control their own account as well...

[QGator2414]

SS is the root cause of the destruction of the family unit. It is frustrating watching people turn to government first...

[ncbullgator]

Originally Posted by 108

Burke being reflexive as always

Damn that savings program that many Americans actually need....yada yada yada

The problem with you Small Government folk is that you can't even accept the reality that a majority of people want a healthy social net

Instead of gutting it and unrealistically expecting everyone to make good decisions, lets improve it and make it more efficient

That's the liberal plan. The majority of people want to scam off another's hard work and sacrifice. Then they will vote to do it. Talk about selfishness.

And in your mind, that's ok.

Wow.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by ncbullgator

That's the liberal plan. The majority of people want to scam off another's hard work and sacrifice. Then they will vote to do it. Talk about selfishness.

And in your mind, that's ok.

Wow.

The amazing part is how many allow the liberal emotions to keep redistributing their own wealth and then when they get their one day they do the same thing to the younger generations that was done to them...

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html