Should we require students to recite the pledge in high school classrooms?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Two things have been identified here:

First, the school district prohibits compelling students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance for our country...but the district supports compelling students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance for another country

Prohibits? From the story: "May said all McAllen ISD students recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States each morning at school."

Second, in English, commentary like that which is quoted above are not permitted to be incorporated with the curriculum on account of it being in violation of the separation of church and state. However, if it is in Spanish, then it is perfectly acceptable.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Not sure what you mean. What does church and state have to do with this?

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

The harm is obvious.

Not only is the harm obvious, but there's no argument in support of the activity. There are plenty of other songs that can be sung (the first one I learned was "It's a Small World").

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Prohibits? From the story: "May said all McAllen ISD students recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States each morning at school."

Right, but none of them are given extra work to do if they choose not to recite it. They're free to not recite it without repercussions. Hence, "not compelled."

Originally Posted by rivergator

Not sure what you mean. What does church and state have to do with this?

Did you read the words to the Anthem that I posted above?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Right, but none of them are given extra work to do if they choose not to recite it. They're free to not recite it without repercussions. Hence, "not compelled."



Did you read the words to the Anthem that I posted above?

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Yeah, I read the words. I've never been upset at the mention of God, in English or Spanish.
Someone mentioned Political Correctness earlier in the thread. To me, opposition to it is extremely PC, as though some great harm will come if someone says those words.

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Yeah, I read the words. I've never been upset at the mention of God, in English or Spanish.

Ok, some are more sensitive to this than others; I agree that the mention of God is not a problem, but you can be sure that it would have been an issue with a lot of folks had they been compelled to sing about God and Heaven in English. There are a lot of atheists on this board that are quick to condemn such a thing. You may not have an issue with this, but I'm sure you recall other similar threads that have people who are quick to condemn such a thing.

Originally Posted by rivergator

Someone mentioned Political Correctness earlier in the thread. To me, opposition to it is extremely PC, as though some great harm will come if someone says those words.

"Political correctness" has become a rather ambiguous and useless term in my opinion. It's an unnecessary short cut to describe what the actual problem is. And people have different views on what it means. The problem here has been identified on many levels, and the utility of the teacher's course of action has yet to be supported or justified in any capacity.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[kygator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

When the alternative is clearly more work (an essay on a revolution vs. reciting a pledge and a song?) and not at all related to the nature of the original assignment it's easy to see that it was quite possibly served as punishment. When you offer punishment as an alternative, it makes the original assignment "required." Regardless, why would anybody encourage American students to make a pledge of allegiance to another countries? The purpose of learning a foreign language is to better communicate with one another, not to prepare for being annexed.

River/Ky, would you both be ok with a student being required to write a U.S. history report in lieu of saying the pledge of allegiance for our country? If so, then I will at least concede your consistency. If not, why the inconsistency?

I did find a reference to her not being allowed to return to class (apparently it's in the lawsuit):



link

If you look at the words to the Mexican Pledge and the National Anthem, it just makes you really scratch your head as to why this was presented to the students as it was. Pretty bizarre stuff; just find it odd that this wasn't bigger news when it happened.

Oh, and if the national allegiance part doesn't get you offended, you're sure to be offended by the reference to God in their Anthem:



Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

I didn't notice the 2nd link in the OP when I replied. The first story linked offered less detail. I would agree that an alternate assignment should be equivalent to the original assignment. If it is much more difficult, which appears to be the case here, I would interpret it as punitive.

[baygator1]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

Wonder if I could have passed with my very limited Spanish.

"Caca fuego y salvar a los patidos"

Yo quiero muchas cervecas mas frias y una chica mas caliente.

[busigator96]

Why not a pledge to the world and all the people in it?

[gatordee]

No way I would not support my child in refusing to do this assignment. A pledge should mean something and it is not something to toy with. I could never say that I had allegiance to something that I did not. How about a Sunday School assignment that praises Satin? What would that hurt?

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by PSGator66

The PC police just want to make everyone happy regardless of the results.

That's not PC, that's just BS!

[Itssaul]

There is no harm in this, it shows not only culture, but also language, 2 vital elements in lesrning a new language.


If there is harm, we should remove GOD from anything government, because it could be harmful to non believers. No one should be required to use GOD's currency.

[kygator]

Lost in all this is something that amused me about the story. From the article:

"Brinsdon was a student in 2011 in an intermediate Spanish class"

"Brinsdon’s mother is herself an immigrant from Mexico and, the lawsuit says, the student is a fluent Spanish speaker"

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by kygator

Lost in all this is something that amused me about the story. From the article:

"Brinsdon was a student in 2011 in an intermediate Spanish class"

"Brinsdon’s mother is herself an immigrant from Mexico and, the lawsuit says, the student is a fluent Spanish speaker"

Was he told to pledge to Mexico in Spanish of the U.S. in Spanish.