CPR controversy

[cocodrilo]

There's a story in the news about a senior facility in California that refused to give CPR to a resident who had passed out and was "barely breathing."

If I recall my CPR training correctly, you do not give CPR to someone who is breathing. You first determine if the person is breathing, and if the person is not breathing to start CPR.

The facility's policy is to give CPR under no circumstances. But I don't see how someone can be faulted for not giving CPR to someone who is "barely breathing," i.e. who is still breathing.

[MichiGator2002]

Airway-Breathing-Circulation -- CPR doesn't begin until you get to "C" without a pulse.

But people in the vernacular also call rescue breathing CPR, so maybe that is what they meant. I think the focus of the story is that wherever the emergency called for in the ABCs, their was a policy against lifting a finger.

[gatorman_07732]

Well the woman is dead so I guess the of doing nothing and watching worked very well

[anstro76]

My mom just re certified her CPR(nurse) and the new training is no breathing into the patient

Sent from my mind using ESP

[channingcrowderhungry]

Originally Posted by anstro76

My mom just re certified her CPR(nurse) and the new training is no breathing into the patient

Sent from my mind using ESP

That's what I was going to say. There are radio ads now discussing giving chest compressions only.

Coincidentally I heard a few years back the correct timing for chest compressions is to the beat of the song "staying alive"

[96Gatorcise]

Originally Posted by channingcrowderhungry

That's what I was going to say. There are radio ads now discussing giving chest compressions only.

Coincidentally I heard a few years back the correct timing for chest compressions is to the beat of the song "staying alive"

correct I just re-certified on Fri. But if you have the opportunity to give breaths ( no blood/puke/food) you have the option to.

I have been certified since I was 16 and the instructor I had this time was the most honest and graphic about what really takes place during a code.

I also saw a news show about this and the nursing home has it in the contract of care that they will not perform CPR.

[jdrgator]

Still seems very wrong to me. Try to do something.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

Still seems very wrong to me. Try to do something.

Something had to be done, the woman is dead

[96Gatorcise]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Airway-Breathing-Circulation -- CPR doesn't begin until you get to "C" without a pulse.

But people in the vernacular also call rescue breathing CPR, so maybe that is what they meant. I think the focus of the story is that wherever the emergency called for in the ABCs, their was a policy against lifting a finger.

you no longer need to check.

If person appears unconscious call 911 and begin compressions.

The rationale is get blood moving as quickly as possible. If the person is still breathing they will let you know with a sound or movement and you can stop.

[RealGatorFan]

"Under California law, unlike at a nursing home, staff members at independent living facilities are not legally required to provide medical aid, according to Mary Winners, an expert on senior care."

[G8trGr8t]

Easy to break ribs on elderly people. Have to wonder how many lawsuits have been filed over that

[JerseyGator01]

The facility was extremely stupid to not have resolved the Do Not Recussitate (sp?) issue with her. No such order existed. CNN butchered a quote from the daughter too. Ah, professionalism is everywhere.

Yet another stupid CA law written by another stupid medical lobbyist ... all for the sake of the mighty dollar.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by 96Gatorcise

you no longer need to check.

If person appears unconscious call 911 and begin compressions.

The rationale is get blood moving as quickly as possible. If the person is still breathing they will let you know with a sound or movement and you can stop.

Didn't know that, haven't been certified in a while. This actually gives me the same feeling that I had when I learned about hands-free CPR -- that they are finding it necessary to dumb the whole business down further and further. Not to impugn you, of course, but when I think about how this is usually training targeted at teens and young adults... makes me wonder, how much of changes to CPR are because remembering ABC and ratios are too much to ask anymore.

[antny]

Agonal respirations do not constitute sufficient respiratory effort and assisting breathing is protocol in that situation.

Also it isn't that rescue breathing isn't part of CPR anymore its just not required for the general public.

The body maintains oxygen saturation in the blood for sometime so emphasis is on compressions. More people will take initiative and perform CPR if they don't have to do mouth to mouth

You should never do mouth to mouth. Most people in cardiac arrest vomit during CPR. Lay people shouldn't do it but responders have bag valve masks and tubes for breathing. Even for professionals though the emphasis is on compressions and not as much on breathing

[gatornana]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

Still seems very wrong to me. Try to do something.

Me, too....can't imagine standing there doing nothing.

[JohnC1908]

I would lose my job to save a life. No way I could live with myself if I saw somebody dying and did nothing about it.

[antny]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Didn't know that, haven't been certified in a while. This actually gives me the same feeling that I had when I learned about hands-free CPR -- that they are finding it necessary to dumb the whole business down further and further. Not to impugn you, of course, but when I think about how this is usually training targeted at teens and young adults... makes me wonder, how much of changes to CPR are because remembering ABC and ratios are too much to ask anymore.

This

[Emmitto]

Originally Posted by channingcrowderhungry

That's what I was going to say. There are radio ads now discussing giving chest compressions only.

Coincidentally I heard a few years back the correct timing for chest compressions is to the beat of the song "staying alive"

I learned during a training a while back the cadence works to "Another One Bites the Dust."

[cocodrilo]

Would the cadence work with "Killing Me Softly"?

[Emmitto]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

Would the cadence work with "Killing Me Softly"?

Maybe, although the version could be problematic. Roberta Flack, Lauren Hill = likely safe. Fugees, Al B. Sure = sure death. Alicia Keys, Colbie Callais = uncertain.