Can we now put something to rest?

[GATORQUEDOG]

The real argument against "calls evening out over the course of a game" is that a bad call 1 minute into the start of game does not have the same effect versus a bad call with 1 minute left in the game.
The end of the game bad call is always going to stand out more and prolly get some ESPN airtime.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by REM08

The poor logic that foul/free throw discrepancy are proof of poor officiating.

I watched the game. I imagine most of you did too. I didn't notice a favorable whistle one way or another. Did you? I thought the game was fairly called and that the refs played no part in the outcome. Agreed?

FOULS ---
Florida 9
Bama 22

FREE THROWS ---
Florida 26
Bama 10

So how about we make a deal and just come to an agreement that FT and foul discrepancy don't always tell the whole story. Pardon my smartass tone, but this has always been something that's gotten on my nerves and is something I see propagated, not just on this site, but on everyone that has ever existed.

Great game though. Talk about locking down a team in crunch time...

There is a difference between proof and evidence. Today the Gators took the ball to the basket much more than usual. We shot much fewer threes (only 13 attempts) than usual. Everyone will probably agree that FT shooting does not tell the whole story. In some cases, however, it provides a smidge of evidence that one team is benefiting from calls. Besides - citing only one game offers little evidence.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

There is a difference between proof and evidence. Today the Gators took the ball to the basket much more than usual. We shot much fewer threes (only 13 attempts) than usual. Everyone will probably agree that FT shooting does not tell the whole story. In some cases, however, it provides a smidge of evidence that one team is benefiting from calls. Besides - citing only one game offers little evidence.

I see what you're saying, but you're thinking I'm trying to prove more than I am. All its proof of is that, exactly as you put it, free throws and fouls don't always tell the whole story.

I'm not trying to act as if I'm stating something incredibly profound. Just suggesting that maybe we shouldn't be so quick to point to stats like this as proof of anything. I agree its just evidence.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by REM08

I see what you're saying, but you're thinking I'm trying to prove more than I am. All its proof of is that, exactly as you put it, free throws and fouls don't always tell the whole story.

I'm not trying to act as if I'm stating something incredibly profound. Just suggesting that maybe we shouldn't be so quick to point to stats like this as proof of anything. I agree its just evidence.

You asked if we could put the issue to rest. As in conclusive, which may easily be equated with profound. Keep the "proof" out of it. FT shooting disparities may be used to constitute evidence. IOW - thread debunked.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

You asked if we could put the issue to rest. As in conclusive, which may easily be equated with profound. Keep the "proof" out of it. FT shooting disparities may be used to constitute evidence. IOW - thread debunked.

Yeah you still don't seem to be following me.

Countless times I've seen people post that team A got screwed because they only shot this many FT's compared to the other team...etc.

This is simply inadequate as proving that someone got screwed - thus this thread citing today as an example of how it might actually NOT constitute bias with refs.

[gatordavisl]

And countless times they have cited specific bad calls, along with the FT disparity, as evidence. Can you cite a poster who has written that the FT disparity provides "proof?" I doubt it. If you have evidence of specific posts that exclusively cite the FT disparity as proof, then you will be providing evidence to your cause. BTW - you would have been better off starting a post congratulating the Gators on winning today's game while improving their ability to get to the line and make FTs.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

And countless times they have cited specific bad calls, along with the FT disparity, as evidence. Can you cite a poster who has written that the FT disparity provides "proof?" I doubt it. If you have evidence of specific posts that exclusively cite the FT disparity as proof, then you will be providing evidence to your cause. BTW - you would have been better off starting a post congratulating the Gators on winning today's game while improving their ability to get to the line and make FTs.

Haha...and there we have it - the reason you're being so arbitrarily combative finally surfaces. Sorry you feel that way. I was more than happy Florida won.

If your memory is so poor that you cannot remember a single post that went something like "look at the home cooking - they have taken twice as many free throws..." then just don't spend more time worrying about this thread and leave it to those of us who do remember the numerous examples of this.

[kygator]

There have been posts on here that only used free throw disparity as proof of poor officiating. This happens with every fan base. Alabama fans are using that argument right now. However, any fan that uses that as proof has such a poor grasp of logic and basketball knowledge that there is no point in arguing with them. That doesn't always stop me though.

[iam4uf]

Originally Posted by 1bobcat

Actually, Bama fouled a ton and could have been called for more. The refs missed a couple here or there but they called a good game for the most part.

Alabama was playing aggressively & hitting UF hard, something the announcers spoke about on numerous occasions during the game. This style of play has bothered UF in the past, notably at UT. Alabama tried it today & got called for a lot of fouls that other teams had "gotten away" with. When combined with "normal" home cooking, the fouls called greatly favored UF.

[GatorRade]

Originally Posted by Jonas

I think we got some home cooking. Thst big of a foul disparity is rarely justified.

There may have been some bad calls, as always, but as REM nicely points out, a disparity is not evidence of a bias. It is an outcome. As an example, Florida beat South Carolina by 39 points this year, which I think we can all agree is a large score disparity. But is this evidence that USC's hoop was smaller? Of course not. Disparities exist in nature without artificial assistance.

[gatorfansrule]

Disparities in fouls is usually due to one team being less aggressive than the other team. If you stand at the 3 point line and fire up shots all game long you're not going to draw many fouls.

[UFreak]

Originally Posted by gatorfansrule

Disparities in fouls is usually due to one team being less aggressive than the other team. If you stand at the 3 point line and fire up shots all game long you're not going to draw many fouls.

I was sitting right under one of the baskets. I thought we were fouling as much as Bama.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by REM08

Haha...and there we have it - the reason you're being so arbitrarily combative finally surfaces. Sorry you feel that way. I was more than happy Florida won.

If your memory is so poor that you cannot remember a single post that went something like "look at the home cooking - they have taken twice as many free throws..." then just don't spend more time worrying about this thread and leave it to those of us who do remember the numerous examples of this.

Not arbitrary or combative. I simply don't agree with the phrase "put to rest" or the term "proof." I also feel these criticisms are best when aimed at specific posts.

[gatorfansrule]

Originally Posted by UFreak

I was sitting right under one of the baskets. I thought we were fouling as much as Bama.

Just a generic statement not meant to be about this game in particular. I agree we got the benefit of the calls, but we were at home, so that's how it works, at least in the SEC.

[regurgigator]

Agree with the OP. I rarely worry that much about foul numbers in evaluating the refs.

Originally Posted by Jonas

I think we got some home cooking. Thst big of a foul disparity is rarely justified.

Disagree. I have been surprised in some games this season at how much contact we've gotten away with - particularly in the paint - when we're playing aggressive defense. Despite only having 9 fouls in this game, I thought the refs called it too close on us with a couple of very ticky-tack fouls called on us inside. The second foul on Young was ridiculous in that he was just holding his defensive position IMHO.

I did not see the refs miss any obvious fouls on us today, and there were only handful of plays where I thought they maybe could have whistled us (for little hip checks and things), but didn't. I thought we just did a great job of playing good position defense while not fouling today.




If the refs call games in the Tourney like they have in most of our games this season (i.e., allowing contact by the defender when he has good position), that will be very good for us given our outstanding defense!!! If the refs call things tight in the Tourney, it will be bad for us IMHO. We need to be able to play aggressive defense.

[gatorbogey]

glad to see REM's post back up. i was wondering what happened to it. didn't seem to warrant the close/deletion when i read it the first time. it merits discussion. we all - me included - bitch to a degree about officiating. especially on the road. since it's obvious the calls and non-calls you get on the road don't usually match what you get at home.

the variation to me is just too broad. too inconsistent. but it is predictable.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by UFreak

I was sitting right under one of the baskets. I thought we were fouling as much as Bama.

Surprising, because it really did not look that way on tv. It looked like we played an exceptionally clean game and that a couple of our fouls were pretty ticky-tack.

As I said, I thought we got away with more contact in some of our other games despite having more fouls called on us in those games.

[BengermanV]

I don't agree entirely. Thought we got the benefit of a few calls tonight. Agreed, however, that foul discrepancy means almost nothing unless it is noticed in a trend.

[Swamp_of_Gators]

I bet if you go to the Alabama board, they'll point to the FT disparity as proof of bad officiating yesterday. lol

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Originally Posted by REM08

The poor logic that foul/free throw discrepancy are proof of poor officiating.

I watched the game. I imagine most of you did too. I didn't notice a favorable whistle one way or another. Did you? I thought the game was fairly called and that the refs played no part in the outcome. Agreed?

FOULS ---
Florida 9
Bama 22

FREE THROWS ---
Florida 26
Bama 10

So how about we make a deal and just come to an agreement that FT and foul discrepancy don't always tell the whole story. Pardon my smartass tone, but this has always been something that's gotten on my nerves and is something I see propagated, not just on this site, but on everyone that has ever existed.

Great game though. Talk about locking down a team in crunch time...

I was just glad to see this team pull out a close game. There was sort of that helpless feeling (much like the UT and Mizzou games had) when the Tide went up by eight. Releford seemed to be in a zone, and Florida was just playing lazy, unispired basketball. Then we went on like a 15-0 run, and the defense was completely dialed in.

Frazier and Yeguete were obviously a bit rusty, so this team is far from being what it will be when the SEC tourney starts.

As for the topic of the thread, I'm never one to blame officiating for any loss. Ironically, though, free throw shooting helped to win-and seal-the game for us yesterday. We played tough basketball over the last ten minutes of that game.