Some of you do know we only played 6 guys right?

[CoachSayre]

Originally Posted by sleeze

ohh yes,,,,w/ our injuries that is definitely good enough.

And on top of that...our first 5 or 6 our playing tired and big minutes in the last few games.

I agree especially since some of them are banged up and hitting walls. Rest tomorrow will help.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by CoachSayre

Sorry we aren't going to put them in at the 8-10 minute mark in the second half when we have things that we need to work on with the top 8.

Sorry, I don't think you've been paying too much attention to our basketball team this season if you think we've had a healthy top 8 the entire year.

[CoachSayre]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

Sorry, I don't think you've been paying too much attention to our basketball team this season if you think we've had a healthy top 8 the entire year.

LOL I haven't been. LOL

But anyway we've had0 some things to work out and we should have played the frosh more with a minute or two to go.

[1984Gator]

Originally Posted by Noahtogo24

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

This is regressing. The loss to AZ was a complete gift, bad ball handling, inbounding and stupidity. It's OK to do that once or maybe twice as a learning experience but we keep repeating these mistakes. Our talent has allowed us to play very sloppy ball and still blow out teams but it will add up to an early exit from the tourney if we don't learn from thes emistakes.

[CAGator93]

I was wondering why we pressed early in the game considering we had a depleted roster. I thought it would wear us out - and possibly did.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by CoachSayre

LOL I haven't been. LOL

But anyway we've had0 some things to work out and we should have played the frosh more with a minute or two to go.

Apparently not if you're somehow thinking we've been injury-free this entire year and have rotated 8 players consistently when the reality is that most all our starters and rotation players have missed time at various points of the year--some missing multiple games.

Instead of taking advantage of opportunities to develop a deeper bench (and rest the starters--which might have come in handy on a night like tonight when we needed our primary 6 fresher), we've simply given the starters more minutes in blowout victories that weren't really close from the 5 minute mark of the first half onwards. Which is nice if we're wanting blowouts in every game...but doesn't exactly help us later on in the season when minor injuries start mounting and fatigue kicks in.

There are precious few drawbacks to rotating in bench players for 1-2 minute stretches in games. No one is saying to give them starters' minutes or saying that Braxton, Graham, or Walker are ready to contribute significant production at this current time. It's patently obvious they aren't ready. That's why you use them in controlled situations where them making a mistake or two isn't going to kill us...with the primary benefits of resting your key players for other battles--and the secondary benefit in perhaps developing a deeper bench/rotation for later on in the season.

When we were winning every game by 20+, it's easy to ignore the minutes being logged by the starters. Not so easy now when they're fatigued and we've dropped a few we should have won had we been fresher.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by BengermanV

Meh. This team isn't very good. They aren't bad, they just aren't very good either.

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

[GatorAvatar]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

I take the latter.

[gregthegator]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

...which is why many of us have championed the "radical" idea of rotating in guys like Braxton, Graham, and Walker for short 1-2 minute spurts alongside 4 regular starters when our team is 20-30 points ahead midway through the second half in order for those guys to gain experience and so that they wouldn't be looking like like does wandering out into the woods for the first time when in a pressure game like this.

I realize that with Braxton, Walker, and Graham, there's a significant drop-off in terms of court awareness and experience. Don't think anyone's advocated throwing them all in together at the 12 minute mark when up by 25...just rotating each in individually for small stretches. If they screw up, yank them real quick or give the spot to the next guy.

It rests our starters (which would have been invaluable tonight and later in the season when fatigue hits in) and gives us more than just 6 players when we're short-handed.

well stated and agreed...but Coach D. just won't do it...they get their min. if up by 30 w/less than 91 secs. to go

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

Teams don't mail it in when there's still 8-10 minutes to play, regardless if they're down by 20 or 30 minutes to play...and especially not when they see a "weak link" coming on. To the contrary, they'll go right at the newbie and its up to them to cope, adapt, and adjust.

Game minutes when the game is still competitive (re: the other team is still trying to fight back to either get back in the game or keep the score respectable) are the best way to develop any player. Had we tried it earlier in the season, perhaps we actually have another player we can rely on to not screw up for a 2 minute stretch later on in the season when we may or may not need them.

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

When we were winning every game by 20+, it's easy to ignore the minutes being logged by the starters. Not so easy now when they're fatigued and we've dropped a few we should have won had we been fresher.

Same as my above post. We have to keep the starters in because we can't afford to let the lead get to within 10. Once it hits 10 it is considered a close game and we will definitely lose. The coaches know this because they read this website.

[SJB612]

The thing that we love about Billy Ball is also the thing that makes winning close games a problem, especially on the road. We have 5 guys of relatively equal importance on the floor, who have similar scoring averages and share the ball at will. It makes for beautiful basketball to watch when it is working correctly. The problem is, by design, there are no stars, no one who can put the team on their shoulders, drop 27 points in one night, dominate a game, and carry you to victory on the road in a tough atmosphere against a quality opponent. There is no one who demands the ball at the end of the game and actually has the stones to make the clutch shot. Just a bunch of selfless guys hoping someone else will make the shot, with the exception of KB, who can go 0 for 10 and still feel like he should take the last shot no matter what, because for some strange reason he has been given the green light to do that since he stepped on campus. When was the last time we had a dominant player who could take over games like that on a consistent basis? I can't think of one. Maybe Noah because of his work on both ends of the floor during the '06 tournament. I still prefer Billy Ball nonetheless, and wouldn't want it any other way, because eventually, stars fade, or have bad nights, and then where are you?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Was looking at the box score ... where on earth did Murphy get 6 boards and 7 points? I swear I didn't see one of those.

[Distant Gator]

Originally Posted by SmootyGator

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

We were up by 40 vs SC with 15 to go. (55-15.)
Up 27 vs UGA with 12 to go at home.
Up 22 vs Mizzou with 7 to go.
Up 28 vs Auburn with 17 to go.

That game vs Auburn really supports Rev's point. Get these young guys some minutes, rest the starters and still win the game.

And perhaps we would have been fresher at Mizzou if our starters had played fewer minutes in the blowout at Auburn. Remember we were up 49-36 at Mizzou with 11 to go at Mizzou but got outscored 27-11 in the final 11. Based on that stat looks like we got worn down- just like last night.

To me it's a win/win/win/win.

Win-play freshman and get them experience in blowouts.
Win- rest starters and reduce their minutes in blowouts.
Win- still win these blowouts. Newsflash- SC isn't coming back from 40 down if we rotate in these freshman for 2 minutes a turn.
Win- our starters are fresher for the other games which gives us a better chance to beat Mizzou and Tennessee. We probably beat Mizzou if we were fresher. Perhaps UT too (did you notice how many open 3's we missed?)

Makes sense to me.

[gator2109]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Was looking at the box score ... where on earth did Murphy get 6 boards and 7 points? I swear I didn't see one of those.

He had a couple nice post moves as well as boards and put backs - we did pretty well with him at the 5 when Young was sitting. His multiple bricked jump shots and 3PT shots overshadowed this and really killed us though.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by Distant Gator

We were up by 40 vs SC with 15 to go. (55-15.)
Up 27 vs UGA with 12 to go at home.
Up 22 vs Mizzou with 7 to go.
Up 28 vs Auburn with 17 to go.

That game vs Auburn really supports Rev's point. Get these young guys some minutes, rest the starters and still win the game.

And perhaps we would have been fresher at Mizzou if our starters had played fewer minutes in the blowout at Auburn. Remember we were up 49-36 at Mizzou with 11 to go at Mizzou but got outscored 27-11 in the final 11. Based on that stat looks like we got worn down- just like last night.

To me it's a win/win/win/win.

Win-play freshman and get them experience in blowouts.
Win- rest starters and reduce their minutes in blowouts.
Win- still win these blowouts. Newsflash- SC isn't coming back from 40 down if we rotate in these freshman for 2 minutes a turn.
Win- our starters are fresher for the other games which gives us a better chance to beat Mizzou and Tennessee. We probably beat Mizzou if we were fresher. Perhaps UT too (did you notice how many open 3's we missed?)

Makes sense to me.

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I really don't think that getting our Freshman a few minutes playing in those four games would have had much impact on how good they would have played in last night's game. These guys practice countless hours outside of games. The coaches watch all of these practices and they just don't think these guys have what it takes to be in the rotation. These guys have been playing basketball for their whole lives. They have spent THOUSANDS of hours practicing and playing basketball. If you think that them getting 30 minutes of game time at the end of 4 blowout games is somehow going to magically make them ready to play at an elite level, I've got news for you. (The preceding wasn't necessarily directed at you, Distant Gator)

I'm sure playing them would have helped our starters get *some* rest. I just don't think it is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I think our fatigue came from having only 6 of our starting 8 available and having to play extra minutes last night, not because they played an extra 6-8 minutes of garbage time two days prior. Maybe I'm wrong... who knows...

All that being said, CoachSayre in this thread (or another) also said that we still need to get our starting 8 some work, and that's why we kept them in. Doesn't also seem obvious that a team that can't close out games should be working on getting better at the end of games? People call our team soft. Shouldn't we be getting our starters as much playing time as possible to harden them up?

[ArtVandelay]

Originally Posted by tilly

If we were healthy, we beat Mizzou and UT...at least.

And... winning on a neutral court when healthy, is easier than on a hostile court while banged up.

That is probably true, but there is no reason that we shouldn't have beaten them both without being healthy. That is what I am disappointed about.

Even with 6, we are a better team and should have won the game.

I still think we are a Final Four team.

[luciaboy]

bd has really not helped build depth by keeping the starters in until 1-2 minutes left in the game with 20-30 point leads

[jms]

I'm beginning to question their mental toughness, didn't win a difficult road game did we? Maybe Texas A M
I'm a believer that the neutral site NCAA will be different. We will see how they react in SEC tourney

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay

That is probably true, but there is no reason that we shouldn't have beaten them both without being healthy. That is what I am disappointed about.

Even with 6, we are a better team and should have won the game.

I still think we are a Final Four team.

We should have beaten them last night, even short handed. They are team that is still 3 games behind us in the standings, even after beating us last night. They will not make the NCAA tournament, unless they win the SEC tourney, which will not happen.

Two of our players that are 12ppg scorers didn't come close to that last night and without Frazier, we couldn't make up for their short fall.

Fully healthy, we could sneak in the final four if we catch some breaks. This team is not a juggernaut though and will need help. We don't have the low post depth to make it there in most years, but this year is special in that few teams can take advantage of that weakness.