Can't Find Good Help

[wygator]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

The benefits package (substantial) will not resonate with most workers in that price range. I work in a similar field. They are all about the bottom line at that level (i.e. "How much will I get this week?") Drop benis and raise the salary north of $15/Hour and you'll probably get more bites - and save money.

Soon, they won't be able to "drop the benis" for health care.

They will be required to provide it for full-time workers or pay the penalty if they don't. Either way, it comes out of the potential salary for the worker.

[GatorMid]

Seems like a much better deal than the $5/hr (minimum wage) with no other benefits I made back in HS working summers in the orange groves.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by wygator

Soon, they won't be able to "drop the benis" for health care.

They will be required to provide it for full-time workers or pay the penalty if they don't. Either way, it comes out of the potential salary for the worker.

I'm thinking the penalty will ultimately be the more cost-effective measure.

[reformedgator]

Originally Posted by G8trGr8t

Anectodal evidence but just a data point for conversation.

I had dinner over the weekend with a friend/business associate who owns a major site and roadway construction company in SW Florida. They offer $11.5 per hour, free healthcare (for employee), 2 weeks paid vacation, and profit sharing (average $4k per year for starters, fully vested at 5 years) for untrained, unskilled labor willing to do manual labor. Average around 5% per year raise as skills warrant. Guaranteed 50 hours a week so overtime so is there to be had. They cannot find anybody that they can verify through e-verify in this market willing to show up everyday on time and work for that. Skilled labor and operators make more.

What is wrong with this picture?

Do they have to pass a drug test? It's getting to be more & more difficult to find workers for employers who require one.

[HALLGATOR]

I'm neither convinced, nor buying, the idea that government benefits is the prime reason behind not being able to fulfill this kind of a job. So far all I have seen that points to that being the case is people just saying so. I don't deny that could be the case for a certain amount of workers but I also think there is more to the equation than just that reason alone.

[wygator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

I'm neither convinced, nor buying, the idea that government benefits is the prime reason behind not being able to fulfill this kind of a job. So far all I have seen that points to that being the case is people just saying so. I don't deny that could be the case for a certain amount of workers but I also think there is more to the equation than just that reason alone.

Do you have a better explanation why the unemployed wouldn't take a job offering at least modest pay?

This is not new. Thirty years ago my wife was an office manager doing the hiring for a Tampa manufacturing company. People would apply for a job, give a lousy interview, then ask her to sign a paper acknowledging that they had interviewed for a job. They needed to be able to report that they were searching to keep their govt benefits.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

I'm neither convinced, nor buying, the idea that government benefits is the prime reason behind not being able to fulfill this kind of a job. So far all I have seen that points to that being the case is people just saying so. I don't deny that could be the case for a certain amount of workers but I also think there is more to the equation than just that reason alone.

This piece was posted here awhile back, covers some of these themes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/ma...pagewanted=all

Eric Isbister, the C.E.O. of GenMet, a metal-fabricating manufacturer outside Milwaukee, told me that he would hire as many skilled workers as show up at his door. Last year, he received 1,051 applications and found only 25 people who were qualified. He hired all of them, but soon had to fire 15. Part of Isbister’s pickiness, he says, comes from an avoidance of workers with experience in a “union-type job.” Isbister, after all, doesn’t abide by strict work rules and $30-an-hour salaries. At GenMet, the starting pay is $10 an hour. Those with an associate degree can make $15, which can rise to $18 an hour after several years of good performance. From what I understand, a new shift manager at a nearby McDonald’s can earn around $14 an hour.

The secret behind this skills gap is that it’s not a skills gap at all. I spoke to several other factory managers who also confessed that they had a hard time recruiting in-demand workers for $10-an-hour jobs. “It’s hard not to break out laughing,” says Mark Price, a labor economist at the Keystone Research Center, referring to manufacturers complaining about the shortage of skilled workers. “If there’s a skill shortage, there has to be rises in wages,” he says. “It’s basic economics.” After all, according to supply and demand, a shortage of workers with valuable skills should push wages up. Yet according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of skilled jobs has fallen and so have their wages.

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by wygator

Do you have a better explanation why the unemployed wouldn't take a job offering at least modest pay?

This is not new. Thirty years ago my wife was an office manager doing the hiring for a Tampa manufacturing company. People would apply for a job, give a lousy interview, then ask her to sign a paper acknowledging that they had interviewed for a job. They needed to be able to report that they were searching to keep their govt benefits.

Some might find out what the job entails and just not want to do it. Some may think the pay is not commiserate with the work or that there are jobs that provide more take home pay for the same work. Some may just be too lazy to work but in these cases that doesn't prove they are getting benefits to any extent. The thing is I think an immediate jump to the conclusion it has to be because most all of them are on the government dole has not been established. It's also an explanation that doesn't require much thinking.

Now it could be true that 90% of them are indeed receiving enough benefits that they have no intention of giving them up but I don't see any real evidence of that so far.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by G8trGr8t

the point is that the market is being artificially influenced by gubmnt programs. if these same people had no benefits and had to choose between working for $30k per year or not eating, the market would supply plenty of labor.

right now, unemployment is another gubmnt inflated bubble, just like housing was and student loans/higher education costs are.

You are trying to educate the indoctrinated...

I really think some people can only view things through emotion. And is is all about emotions and fairness...

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

Some might find out what the job entails and just not want to do it. Some may think the pay is not commiserate with the work or that there are jobs that provide more take home pay for the same work. Some may just be too lazy to work but in these cases that doesn't prove they are getting benefits to any extent. The thing is I think an immediate jump to the conclusion it has to be because most all of them are on the government dole has not been established. It's also an explanation that doesn't require much thinking.

Now it could be true that 90% of them are indeed receiving enough benefits that they have no intention of giving them up but I don't see any real evidence of that so far.

The fact that we have huge unemployment and record citizens relying on the government boob isn't strong evidence?

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

The fact that we have huge unemployment and record citizens relying on the government boob isn't strong evidence?

No, it may be evidence that this may be the case with a certain amount of unemployed workers but there is no strong proof that even the largest percentage of them are not taking the job due to their receiving government aid.

[GatorFanCF]

I moved to Florida in '81 and was managing a retail store 3 blocks down the street from county seat and many government offices. People would walk in, shabbily dressed and ask "are you hiring?" and I would say "no"; then, they would ask me to sign paperwork saying they had attempted to get employment.

After the second time I realized this was a lazy way to continue to get benefits; and, I wouldn't sign. People would say "why not?" and I would reply: "you're not dressed professionally, you have no knowledge of what we do, nor do you have any inkling of how your skills could help us; and, frankly I'm offended that you would simply use me to continue to play your game. Feel free to go "apply" somewhere else" They stopped coming into the store. What is happening now is not new - human behavior being what it is; but, I do believe it is happening more frequently and with more money than ever before.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by GatorFanCF

I moved to Florida in '81 and was managing a retail store 3 blocks down the street from county seat and many government offices. People would walk in, shabbily dressed and ask "are you hiring?" and I would say "no"; then, they would ask me to sign paperwork saying they had attempted to get employment.

After the second time I realized this was a lazy way to continue to get benefits; and, I wouldn't sign. People would say "why not?" and I would reply: "you're not dressed professionally, you have no knowledge of what we do, nor do you have any inkling of how your skills could help us; and, frankly I'm offended that you would simply use me to continue to play your game. Feel free to go "apply" somewhere else" They stopped coming into the store. What is happening now is not new - human behavior being what it is; but, I do believe it is happening more frequently and with more money than ever before.

Thank You

[gregthegator]

Today's younger generation has NO CLUE about physical work...if it don't involve an I-pad...and AIR conditioning...they AIN'T doing it....

[wygator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

Some might find out what the job entails and just not want to do it. Some may think the pay is not commiserate with the work or that there are jobs that provide more take home pay for the same work. Some may just be too lazy to work but in these cases that doesn't prove they are getting benefits to any extent. The thing is I think an immediate jump to the conclusion it has to be because most all of them are on the government dole has not been established. It's also an explanation that doesn't require much thinking.

Now it could be true that 90% of them are indeed receiving enough benefits that they have no intention of giving them up but I don't see any real evidence of that so far.

I think the fact that they asked her to sign the paper for their job search report is evidence that they were receiving benefits.

[madgator]

isn't it $660.00/week when you factor in the 10 hours of overtime? So basically $35,000/year with benefits and profit sharing.

almost $40k a year to start for unskilled labor....plus benefits and he can't find employees......something is seriously wrong

[sappanama]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Well I was 18.

And it wasn't full-time.

And I did a good job and got a raise after 6 months.

And they're still in business.

Wow, that is a long summer break , and being 19 at hs grad has advantages

[gator1986]

Because Americans feel they are above hard labor work anymore. Bunch of sissies, I work out in the sun from sun up to sun down everyday. I absolutely love it!

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by wygator

I think the fact that they asked her to sign the paper for their job search report is evidence that they were receiving benefits.

So we know for a fact everyone who applied for the job asked for their papers to be signed? Or the ones who didn't work out were all because they wanted to fall back on government benefits. I don't think you can make that determination with any accuracy based on a conversation over a meal.

[G8trGr8t]

All I can tell you is that the owner of the company said that it is not uncommon for them to call and offer a job only to be told that the applicant wasn't ready to work yet but they had to keep applying to keep ue benefits current. Many are collecting ue benefits and then working side jobs for cash so that they can work when they want and not work when they don't want to. Something tells me that nothing short of original video of people making these statements will be enough to convince you of that though. Denial can be a powerful and useful tool when you want to convince yourself of something though.