Question For Lefties

[Burke]

Virtually everything the govt provides could be provided better and more cheaply by free enterprise, except the military, the cops, the courts, et.

Plus, a free system like that would not be an immoral wealth redistribution system in disguise,

[Itssaul]

Originally Posted by Burke

Virtually everything the govt provides could be provided better and more cheaply by free enterprise, except the military, the cops, the courts, et.

Plus, a free system like that would not be an immoral wealth redistribution system in disguise,

Quite a big exception there.

[Burke]

Actually, a small part of the budget,

[Itssaul]

Originally Posted by Burke

Actually, a small part of the budget,

You should agree, still big

[Row6]

Originally Posted by Burke

Tell him I'll be happy to completely abolish public education.

I'm sure you will too.

Right.

Nope?

Notice how lefties are always portraying themselves as victims, one way or another.

They steal your stuff and let you have a little bit back. Then they scream that you are exploiting them and demand more.

All the while you were really screwing them.

Imagine that!

Easy for you to say now, that is after you have prospered from your UF education. if you're like most of us, you couldn't afford Vanderbilt and if not for the socialized higher education you got in Gainesville, you might be a concrete finisher instead of an attorney.

[Row6]

Originally Posted by Burke

First, my parents sent me to college and paid enough there and taxes elsewhere to more than pay for what I got. I could have paid for the education for all three of my children st UF with income taxes I paid just one year.

Second, the education they gave me was mostly crappy, just like everyone there gets.

Third, I hated the place from the day I got there until the day I got out. (except for the Gators, of course)

Public schools have a near monopoly on the education system, gained by govt force and not competition. A (real) private school education would have been much better.

One of the worst mistakes I ever made was not homeschooling my kids.

A college public education today costs a fortune and completely sucks.

You are paying to be indoctrinated, not educated.

Florida doesn't have an income tax and almost all tax dollars - including those that help subsidize UF - come from sales taxes, which everyone pays. It is highly doubtful that you have somehow repayed the value of your university education subsidy, which in today's dollars is around $35000 a year for tuition (actual state tuition vs at a comparable private institution). It is certainly true that only a small minority of state residents receive the benefit you did, while all pay for it. Too bad it was wasted on you.

[Row6]

Originally Posted by Burke

Virtually everything the govt provides could be provided better and more cheaply by free enterprise, except the military, the cops, the courts, et.

Plus, a free system like that would not be an immoral wealth redistribution system in disguise,

I guess that explains why Vanderbilt and Rollins are so cheap.

[chemgator]

I think that education is one of the things that the gov't should be responsible for. I have no problem paying for education. Having said that, I do have a problem paying more than we need to for education. We spend the second most per capita on education in the world, and yet we rank #25-40 in most education test results (near the bottom of industrialized nations). That's embarrassing. It almost seems like the more we have gov't do, the less it is able to focus on doing anything right. The more things there are going on, the less accountability there is for being successful, and the more likely the answer will be "it's important, so throw more money at it". And if you throw enough money at it, you will find a consultant who will tell you how much more difficult it is to accomplish something in the U.S., and compared to educating goldfish, we're actually doing pretty well, thank you very much.

Why can't the democrats acknowledge the widespread failure in gov't, and support simplifying gov't to the point it has a chance at being successful at what it does? Why does the answer always have to be "we're not spending enough" or "we need more programs"?

[Burke]

"I think that education is one of the things that the gov't should be responsible for"

What does it mean to say govt is "responsible" for something?

It means govt should force some to provide it for others.

Simple as that.

[Burke]

The only private schools that exist are schools like Vandy and Rollins for rich people who can afford them and non-profit schools like church schools.

Less expensive schools for people who aren't rich can't compete with free public schools.

[Itssaul]

Originally Posted by chemgator

I think that education is one of the things that the gov't should be responsible for. I have no problem paying for education. Having said that, I do have a problem paying more than we need to for education. We spend the second most per capita on education in the world, and yet we rank #25-40 in most education test results (near the bottom of industrialized nations). That's embarrassing. It almost seems like the more we have gov't do, the less it is able to focus on doing anything right. The more things there are going on, the less accountability there is for being successful, and the more likely the answer will be "it's important, so throw more money at it". And if you throw enough money at it, you will find a consultant who will tell you how much more difficult it is to accomplish something in the U.S., and compared to educating goldfish, we're actually doing pretty well, thank you very much.

Why can't the democrats acknowledge the widespread failure in gov't, and support simplifying gov't to the point it has a chance at being successful at what it does? Why does the answer always have to be "we're not spending enough" or "we need more programs"?

Just curious, not trying to prove a point or anything , what countries are consistently ahead of us in education? Jw

[Row6]

Originally Posted by chemgator

I think that education is one of the things that the gov't should be responsible for. I have no problem paying for education. Having said that, I do have a problem paying more than we need to for education. We spend the second most per capita on education in the world, and yet we rank #25-40 in most education test results (near the bottom of industrialized nations). That's embarrassing. It almost seems like the more we have gov't do, the less it is able to focus on doing anything right. The more things there are going on, the less accountability there is for being successful, and the more likely the answer will be "it's important, so throw more money at it". And if you throw enough money at it, you will find a consultant who will tell you how much more difficult it is to accomplish something in the U.S., and compared to educating goldfish, we're actually doing pretty well, thank you very much.

Why can't the democrats acknowledge the widespread failure in gov't, and support simplifying gov't to the point it has a chance at being successful at what it does? Why does the answer always have to be "we're not spending enough" or "we need more programs"?

At the University level, we still lead the world, and are the destination for millions of foreign students from around the world. Unfortunately our position in this regard is slipping and the better public U's - like UF here and the excellent UCalifornia schools - are being stretched and weakened by budget cuts.

[Row6]

Originally Posted by Burke

The only private schools that exist are schools like Vandy and Rollins for rich people who can afford them and non-profit schools like church schools.

Less expensive schools for people who aren't rich can't compete with free public schools.

There are approximately 80 private colleges in the state of Florida vs 12 state U's and about 15 community colleges (some of which are transitioning to 4 year colleges).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_in_Florida

[Burke]

How many of the private schools are for profit?

And how many can compete with public school which are free because they are supported by taxes, including taxes taken from the profit making private schools.

How would you like to go into business competing with other businesses that are not only selling the same services free but getting supported by you?

[chemgator]

Originally Posted by Itssaul

Just curious, not trying to prove a point or anything , what countries are consistently ahead of us in education? Jw

Virtually all countries in Asia, and most in Europe are well ahead of us in K-12 education. Northern Europe (Norway, Sweden & Finland), Japan, Taiwan and Singapore mop the floor with the U.S. educational system. Germany, Austria and France clean their toilets with it. We can compete with Italy, Greece, and certain countries that are at war with themselves.

[Itssaul]

Originally Posted by chemgator

Virtually all countries in Asia, and most in Europe are well ahead of us in K-12 education. Northern Europe (Norway, Sweden & Finland), Japan, Taiwan and Singapore mop the floor with the U.S. educational system. Germany, Austria and France clean their toilets with it. We can compete with Italy, Greece, and certain countries that are at war with themselves.

Thanks

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by chemgator

Virtually all countries in Asia, and most in Europe are well ahead of us in K-12 education. Northern Europe (Norway, Sweden & Finland), Japan, Taiwan and Singapore mop the floor with the U.S. educational system. Germany, Austria and France clean their toilets with it. We can compete with Italy, Greece, and certain countries that are at war with themselves.

Having experience with at least one of those Asian countries' educational system up close, I would argue that you overstate just how good those other systems are compared to ours. I think you miss what is the key point, which I'll state in a question:

Just how good are our students and parents compared to these other countries children and parents?