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02-21-2013, 04:17 PM
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#61
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Sub-optimal Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 16,578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson
I think you are wrong.
Natural Resources have been around for a long time. The process of utilizing those resources is what creates wealth. Centralized control of resources has been tried and is being tried. Most of the oil resources are owned by various governments. In spite of the vast wealth, the people in those countries are usually not better off than the people in less centralized economies
Perhaps.
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My main argument is that there's a tradition of common natural resources in concert with privatization that predates Communism by about 700 years. Its really the foundation of Anglo-style government, if you want to view the Magna Carta as the first great legal document. I'm simply arguing that having protection & use of the commons is a ancient liberty of the people.
__________________
"The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openess, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meaness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success." 
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02-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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#62
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Big Apple
Posts: 14,426
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson
Capitalism is the reason why there is less poverty today than there has ever been.
Think of the absence of capitalism. Do you contend that poverty could be eliminated by having no trade?
Humans are better off now than they have ever been in the history of humans. Primarily due to capitalism
Of course you would. From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs. Right?
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No, I don't believe one man has more right than another to a nations resources, and it could be used for the common good much better than billions sitting in bank accounts for endless time
But that's just me
And I agreed that Capitalism is the best overall model, but it isn't without fault...the best models have a healthy mixture of both
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02-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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#63
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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Wealth is not virtuous in and of itself, and neither necessarily evil.
How one acquires it and what one does with it may determine the issue.
In Gates' case, he has structured everything he has done towards making a world where his ideas control how others interact with the world he has helped invent. You could say it was just "evolution" of a kernel idea that necessarily established a paradigm, that in turn, had to expand (and be exploited as well), or it could be characterized as a masterful vision for the evolution and exploitation of the age of technology.
Either way, Gates' vision for the world often sucks, and IMO, still does.
Jobs, I can't say.
So, is Gates greedy ? I would say so, seeing as how he basically requires others to be force fed his vision, and his appliances, all to his profit.
Does he make Jobs (a funny I just told), create economic stuff, and throw some dimes to the bums in the meantime ? Sure.
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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02-21-2013, 04:34 PM
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#64
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog88
So, is Gates greedy ? I would say so, seeing as how he basically requires others to be force fed his vision, and his appliances, all to his profit.
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Linus Torvalds disagrees with you.
Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS
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02-21-2013, 04:40 PM
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#65
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WESGATORS
Linus Torvalds disagrees with you.
Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS
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Well, the majority of others I'll say. But I do raise a cyberspace toast for a kernel of an idea to Linus.
(And you can throw in Gates' sycophants pals into the greedy pot, too).
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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02-21-2013, 05:43 PM
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#66
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Heisman Winner
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgbgator
My main argument is that there's a tradition of common natural resources in concert with privatization that predates Communism by about 700 years. Its really the foundation of Anglo-style government, if you want to view the Magna Carta as the first great legal document. I'm simply arguing that having protection & use of the commons is a ancient liberty of the people.
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Don't disagree with that.
And it is no surprise that real wealth creation across all strata of society really cranked up with the advent of property rights.
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02-21-2013, 05:44 PM
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#67
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Heisman Winner
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajinGator
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The man was a national treasure.
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02-22-2013, 04:57 PM
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#68
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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So was Jobs greedy like Gates . . . or different greedy ?
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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02-22-2013, 05:22 PM
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#69
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Heisman Winner
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The ATL
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 108
And I agreed that Capitalism is the best overall model, but it isn't without fault...
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Finally... you are starting to get it....  Welcome!
__________________
All your trophy are belong to us
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02-22-2013, 05:26 PM
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#70
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Premium Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,389
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Lawdog wrote,
"So, is Gates greedy ? I would say so, seeing as how he basically requires others to be force fed his vision, and his appliances, all to his profit."
What kind of force did Gates use?
A gun or what?
None I know of.
So why do lefties claim otherwise?
As a rationalization for using guns against him.
He has no obligation to run his affairs for the benefit of others.
Although others have benefitted enormously because of him.
EVERYTHING a leftie says is just a rationalization for exploiting and destroying happy, productive people.
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02-22-2013, 05:33 PM
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#71
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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So Gates is good greedy, not bad greedy.
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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02-22-2013, 06:27 PM
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#72
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Premium Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,389
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Far as I know, whatever. "greedy" means.
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02-22-2013, 08:06 PM
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#73
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Heisman Candidate
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,410
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Greed = taking what you have not earned.
Guys like Gates and Jobs were not greedy. They created industry and made thousands of millionaires and provided jobs, directly and indirectly, world wide for tens of thousands of people.
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02-22-2013, 08:31 PM
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#74
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Gator Country Gold
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
Gates became a "humanitarian" after he got slapped around in his anti-trust suit, in other words, he became a victim.
But even from the altruist perspective, which would have served his fellow man the most, continuing to grow his company, with new products, etc., or building shelters for homeless people.
I would say the former.
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You mean build people more shelters from which they can demand more freebies, from more giving, caring people?
That's a good way to teach someone to beg for more.
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02-22-2013, 10:15 PM
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#75
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3goalie
Greed = taking what you have not earned.
Guys like Gates and Jobs were not greedy. They created industry and made thousands of millionaires and provided jobs, directly and indirectly, world wide for tens of thousands of people.
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That makes them capitalists. Not virtuous.
And insofar as they created lousy paradigms to exploit at the expense of better ideas, greedy.
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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02-22-2013, 10:26 PM
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#76
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Premium Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 6,294
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wgbgator
What about the force? It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.  |
You're thinking of duct tape. Binding together the universe with its light and dark sides.
__________________
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There was nothin to set a man's mind at ease like wakin up in the morning and not havin to decide who you were.
C. McCarthy
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02-22-2013, 11:30 PM
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#77
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 13,014
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by exiledgator
You're thinking of duct tape. Binding together the universe with its light and dark sides.
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Owners have not earned, they own.
__________________
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."--Emerson
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Jiddu Krishnamurti"
End the FED
Become debt free! 
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02-23-2013, 12:15 PM
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#78
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Premium Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,389
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People live by creating the values they need to do so. The right to use these values to live and be happy is known as the right of property.
In what kind of world is being very productive (and therefore rich) not a virtue?
In a world in which people hate life and those who love theirs.
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02-23-2013, 12:42 PM
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#79
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Big Apple
Posts: 14,426
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mocgator
Finally... you are starting to get it.... Welcome! |
I've never had a different opinion
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02-23-2013, 12:51 PM
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#80
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Gator Country Diamond
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Inside the War Room, No Name City, FL
Posts: 26,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
People live by creating the values they need to do so. The right to use these values to live and be happy is known as the right of property.
In what kind of world is being very productive (and therefore rich) not a virtue?
In a world in which people hate life and those who love theirs.
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What kind of atheistic, pop politico-psychology is that ?
There are objective values in the world that are translated into morals most often, that appear in all cultures, that give our conscience meaning, guide our decisions, and signal to us and to others what is right and what is wrong.
We don't just get to make them up for ourselves, claim that they are rights, and project them onto others, much less, claim that they are "good."
B.S. out the wazoo, there, Mr. Burkester.
__________________
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
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