What's Greed?

[Burke]

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs made fortunes working selfishly for themselves.

And, in doing so, benefitted those around them tremendously. They helped create the modern world we live in.

Were they "greedy"?

If so, is that bad?

There is such a thing as materialism, sacrificing human virtues like honesty and integrity for some material gain, but there's no clear indication Gates or Jobs did this.

And it isn't why such people are hated by leftists and others.

Looks to me like they earned it all and benefitted the rest of the world even more.

"Greed," as it is usually used, is what Rand call an anti-concept.

Read about anti-concepts here:

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anti-concepts.html

[busigator96]

Rand is the anti-concept....survival of the fitest is crazy for humans.

[busigator96]

At least Gates is coming around and sharing his resources and know-how with education.
Maybe his wife told him to.... I don't know.

[Burke]

Gates became a "humanitarian" after he got slapped around in his anti-trust suit, in other words, he became a victim.

But even from the altruist perspective, which would have served his fellow man the most, continuing to grow his company, with new products, etc., or building shelters for homeless people.

I would say the former.

[CHFG8R]

I thank God for Bill Gates and the fact that he prevented Jobs from essentially cornering the market on hardware AND software.

Now Apple has become "the man" that all those Macaphiles used to call Gates. If you're typing on an affordable PC, then you can thank Gates. Jobs - as we are learning now - was never the "good guy" the Macaphiles would have had us believe.

So, IMO, of the two, Jobs is the bad greed guy whereas Gates greed actually benefited us all.

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

I would prefer looking at greed from a sociobiological standpoint, where it is essentially parasitic to the community.

[busigator96]

Originally Posted by GuyWhiteyCorngood

I would prefer looking at greed from a sociobiological standpoint, where it is essentially parasitic to the community.

Exactly! The planet does not need us, we need the planet and it resources.

[MichiGator2002]

I define greed as the place at which ambition and the profit motive become maladaptive. Like any other human motivation, "want" is neither inherently good or bad but by degree.

[Burke]

If someone has something you want and they won't give it to you, they're greedy.

Hell, if you are successful and don't feel guilty about it, you're greedy.

"Greed" is a nonsensical epithet losers use describe those who are successful and happy.

[HudsonGator]

What, no Gordon Gekko?

[mocgator]

What, no Milton Friedman?

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

So innovation and greed are the same thing. Brilliant.

[tegator80]

Greed is what another well-to-do person doesn't do with their resources. Savvy is what we do with ours.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by Burke

If someone has something you want and they won't give it to you, they're greedy.

Hell, if you are successful and don't feel guilty about it, you're greedy.

"Greed" is a nonsensical epithet losers use describe those who are successful and happy.

Isn't that ambition/profit motive becoming maladaptive? Wanting someone else's stuff? Or when they motivate people to dishonesty, manipulation, etc, tricking Bob into missing a client meeting so you can take over and close the sale, etc?

[Burke]

Let's approach it another way:

Are criminals greedy?

Is it in one's self-interest to be a criminal?

If not, why call them greedy?

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by Burke

Let's approach it another way:

Are criminals greedy?

Is it in one's self-interest to be a criminal?

If not, why call them greedy?

Why do you consider greed per se inclusive of one's self-interest? Is this another one of those Randcabulary things where common use and etymology are just trifling details?

[wgbgator]

"Greed" is always going to be defined against whatever people deem a proper share of something. I think that's what Burke and Rand have a problem with - the idea that there is "enough" of anything, and that it can be decided by informal social consensus. For Burke, "enough" is whatever a person's appetite limits them too, no matter how destructive or avaricious.

[WESGATORS]

I think what's really being asked here is who gets to make the rules on what level of "want" is acceptable? When greedy is being used in a derogatory fashion, people are generally being accused of "wanting" too much. When greed is being used in a more objective fashion it is simply a descriptor for the passion of "want."

I would say greed (derogatory) doesn't begin until your efforts to accumulate prevent others from accumulating. Say for instance there is a limited natural resource; if you claim it all for yourself, then you are preventing others from accumulating it...that would be greedy.

I think, though, that in a practical sense, the term "greedy" is more commonly used as an attack on one's character rather than a description of something that is unjust. In other words, it's a moral condemnation not a claim that one's rights are being violated.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

I think what's really being asked here is who gets to make the rules on what level of "want" is acceptable? When greedy is being used in a derogatory fashion, people are generally being accused of "wanting" too much. When greed is being used in a more objective fashion it is simply a descriptor for the passion of "want."

I would say greed (derogatory) doesn't begin until your efforts to accumulate prevent others from accumulating. Say for instance there is a limited natural resource; if you claim it all for yourself, then you are preventing others from accumulating it...that would be greedy.

I think, though, that in a practical sense, the term "greedy" is more commonly used as an attack on one's character rather than a description of something that is unjust. In other words, it's a moral condemnation not a claim that one's rights are being violated.

Go GATORS!,WESGATORS

I sort of agree, but what if we agree to order a pizza & split the cost 50/50. You leave the room for a little bit and I take a piece of the pie that puts me over 1/2 of the slices without asking you. Isnt that greedy to take more than what convention says is mine? Is that implied in the social contract of splitting the cost? I didnt prevent you from consuming any pizza, just less than what was "due" to you without your consent.

[lacuna]

Greed is need grown amok. We can see it easily in others but rarely recognize it in ourselves. It's not confined to the acquisition of money or material goods and assets but also can warp our sense of entitlement.

Greed is what causes the person who has already had his or her allotted serving of dessert to take more than he or she needs when others have none. Over eating is greed.

Greed for adulation or praise is also evident in people who ostentatiously do works of charity or publicly announce what they have done or given. What is their motivation for making announcement of their generosity? Jesus had some specific things to say about people who did this sort of thing.

Burke wrote:

If someone has something you want and they won't give it to you, they're greedy.

Hell, if you are successful and don't feel guilty about it, you're greedy.

"Greed" is a nonsensical epithet losers use describe those who are successful and happy.

Greed is more than a "nonsensical epithet." It can be and frequently is measured subjectively, but is quite real in the sense our taking or using more than we need to live comfortably denies another the basics of what they need to simply subsist. Bill and Melinda Gates recognize this. During the time of his avariciousness Dennis Kozlowski did not. Last year at his parole hearing he said, “I was living in a CEO-type bubble. I had a strong sense of entitlement at that time and I had a sense of greed. I stole a lot of money,”

People who want what someone else has are covetous. That is probably the least remembered of the Decalogue but the offense of it is perhaps the primary reason for thefts, murders, wars and other destructive actions and attitudes. It is the antithesis of the ethic of reciprocity - treating others as we ourselves wish to be treated.

There is an ancient Chinese proverb worth remembering: When you realize you have enough, you are truly rich.