North Carolina has officially been offered to join the Big Ten

[GatorLaw]

Originally Posted by 1984Gator

Maryland would have been a nice addition to the SEC. perhaps we should still try to take them from the B1G....

Just curious - why do you think that? Maryland was a power in the dark ages (1950s) but has done little since. Good school, big old stadium (last time I looked), lots of alums. But I don't offhand see why the SEC would want them except maybe the D.C. area TV market. But with so many choices of football teams to root for by fans in that area I'm not sure what kind of ratings Maryland gets.

[HungaryGator]

Numerous people I've talked to who live in the DC area wear Va Tech has noticeably more fans in greater DC and gets more interest than Maryland. The thought of UVA being able to deliver that market is a joke. Maryland's attendance is woeful. Culturally, it just doesn't fit with the SEC....for that matter while Maryland used to be a border state, it has really drifted far more into the Yankee orbit nowadays and I don't know of any Southerners who consider it to be Southern.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

Numerous people I've talked to who live in the DC area wear Va Tech has noticeably more fans in greater DC and gets more interest than Maryland. The thought of UVA being able to deliver that market is a joke. Maryland's attendance is woeful. Culturally, it just doesn't fit with the SEC....for that matter while Maryland used to be a border state, it has really drifted far more into the Yankee orbit nowadays and I don't know of any Southerners who consider it to be Southern.

Well of course.

Virginia Tech has been successful for the past decade. Maryland? Not so much. Were the opposite true, Maryland would be doing fine up there.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by GatorLaw

Just curious - why do you think that? Maryland was a power in the dark ages (1950s) but has done little since. Good school, big old stadium (last time I looked), lots of alums. But I don't offhand see why the SEC would want them except maybe the D.C. area TV market. But with so many choices of football teams to root for by fans in that area I'm not sure what kind of ratings Maryland gets.

For the record, I only said I thought Maryland would have been a candidate for the SEC, not necessarily a nice addition. I don't think they would have been near the to of the SEC list, and I think they make a lot more sense for the Big-10 than the SEC, but there could be far worse choices and Maryland if the SEC were looking to expand.

I think sometimes people are too focused on evaluating programs based on how they've been performing as opposed to their real resources and potential. It still amazes me how many people said Texas A&M wasn't a good choice for the SEC.

One of the things that has caused schools like Maryland and UNC to be mediocre is that they haven't really focused on athletics and have been stuck in the ACC. They've had a bad product to sell for decades, so fans don't care.

Now, I'm not saying that Maryland is ever going to be a football powerhouse or anything, but I think you'll probably see considerably more support from fans once they're playing a Big-10 football schedule and have schools like Michigan and Penn State coming to College Park instead of Wake and Duke. Plus, the Maryland football program should improve and you'll probably see more fans at Maryland football games, higher merchandise sales and improvements to their facilities.

The point is just that with their large student and alumni base and resources, it's not going to take a whole lot to energize their fan base and make their program respectable and profitable.

[GatorPrincess8]

Vt and nc state

[BobK89]

If GT and UVa go to the B1G and NCS and VT to the SEC, I'd bet that the Big East and ACC would have no choice but to merge.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[atlantagator86]

Seeing rumors for the first time that UNC and the SEC are actually talking and that there's mutual interest. But it's just rumor.

Also saw that a law firm who reviewed the ACC buyout says they believe in the end that Maryland will probably pay between $15 and $20 million to get out of the ACC.

My belief has been that they would throw out the $50 million buyout and negotiate off the old $20 million figure that was in place prior and that in most cases, schools have paid about half of the buyout, which would be $10 million, but in this case I could see the ACC being less willing to negotiate since they already lost the $50 million buyout, so the $15 million seems like a reasonable number.

If $15 million is the number, you can expect GT and UVA to be more than willing to pay that number to leave for the Big-10.

[GatorJaws]

SEC will take Texas and Oklahoma...thank you very much...

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by GatorJaws

SEC will take Texas and Oklahoma...thank you very much...

Bevo we do not want. They are simply too much trouble having already comprehensively demonstrated they are incapable of playing nice with others. In addition to that, aTm, Arky and Mizzou would each blackball them anyway.

The Land Thieves would not come without Okie Light (their state legislature would insist on that as a condition) and the SEC is not willing to spend two slots just to secure a fairly small state like Oklahoma. So neither will ever be in the SEC.

[dadx4]

Here in ACC country some of the radio guys were thinking out loud today that Virginia may leave.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

The Land Thieves would not come without Okie Light (their state legislature would insist on that as a condition) and the SEC is not willing to spend two slots just to secure a fairly small state like Oklahoma. So neither will ever be in the SEC.

Never say never. It would be preferable for them to move together but it isn't written in stone. The bigger issue is not so much that they stay together but that both are perceived to be taken care of.

If Okey State had a Pac-12 or Big-10 offer, or if the Big-12 still looked completely stable even with OU leaving (which it probably wouldn't), OU leaving for the SEC alone wouldn't be as big a problem.

The real problem, and the reason Baylor was fighting Texas and Texas A&M leaving, is that Baylor was going to be left to suffer in a dying conference if those schools left. If schools like Okey State, Duke/NCSU, VT/UVA are perceived to be left at a disadvantage, that when the state governments are going to try to flex their muscles.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by dadx4

Here in ACC country some of the radio guys were thinking out loud today that Virginia may leave.

Once the Maryland buyout is resolved, and barring UNC telling the Big-10 they're ready to go in UVA's place, I believe UVA and GT are probably as good as gone to the Big-10.

[slique7]

atlantagator86 & HungaryGator - Great dialogue. I don't often post but I've wanted to jump into the conference realignment for a while.

ATL, I too believe that the UMD decision/ruling is the only thing UVA & GT are waiting on. The Big10, ideally, would like UNC also, and I believe would even take Duke to do so, however; UNC will grudgingly join the SEC for the reason's Hungary outlined, mainly for fear of being overtaken athletically by NCST. I also don't think the deal will need to include Duke, unless we want it to. SEC has all the leverage, and while we greatly prefer UNC to NCST, we can accomplish our same goal without them, and at UNC's detriment.

I have a little different take on the Big12, I think. It's my belief that the SEC wants the remaining teams directed to the Big12 to strengthen their newly formed partnership, Rose Bowl vs. Cotton Bowl, and the power that comes with that. The PAC raiding the Big12 could eventually shift the balance of power in favor of the BIG/PAC. If the SEC can prevent that, it will leave the PAC without any attractive expansion candidates, thus forever putting a ceiling, lower than that of ours, on their earnings and partnership with the BIG.

Texas, of course, must be convinced of the bigger picture play of expansion. The obvious difficulties being the Texas'/Big12s' current attractive deal, and UT's ego/control issues.

Look forward to your thoughts....

[atlantagator86]

slique7:

Everyone wants UNC. They are THE big prize in this next round of expansion.

I don't think UNC cares about NCSU and I don't think they'll make their decision based on blocking NCSU or based on what the fans want. They're going to make the decision based on where they think they'll thrive and make the most money. Big-10 or SEC, UNC is going to make a LOT of money! UNC really can't make a bad decision here.

I think the bigger factor for UNC and the thing that straight up may make the decision easier for them is how many other ACC members could go to the Big-10. With Maryland already there and GT and UVA likely headed there, UNC might just feel like there are more schools they have history with in the Big-10. The other factor is that I think the Big-10 would consider taking Duke to get UNC, I don't think the SEC would, at least at this point.

I really don't think the SEC gives a damn about the Big-12 and isn't going to make moves to keep the Big-12 powerful. The end game, I still think is that after the SEC, Pac-12 and Big-10 take who they want, the remains of the ACC and Big-12 merge to form a 4th viable, though weaker conference.

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

Once the Maryland buyout is resolved, and barring UNC telling the Big-10 they're ready to go in UVA's place, I believe UVA and GT are probably as good as gone to the Big-10.

If that happens the SEC will make its move soon thereafter. Personally, I hope it happens..........

[HudsonGator]

Originally Posted by GatorJaws

SEC will take Texas and Oklahoma...thank you very much...

That would be my first choice.

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by slique7

atlantagator86 & HungaryGator - Great dialogue. I don't often post but I've wanted to jump into the conference realignment for a while.

ATL, I too believe that the UMD decision/ruling is the only thing UVA & GT are waiting on. The Big10, ideally, would like UNC also, and I believe would even take Duke to do so, however; UNC will grudgingly join the SEC for the reason's Hungary outlined, mainly for fear of being overtaken athletically by NCST. I also don't think the deal will need to include Duke, unless we want it to. SEC has all the leverage, and while we greatly prefer UNC to NCST, we can accomplish our same goal without them, and at UNC's detriment.

I have a little different take on the Big12, I think. It's my belief that the SEC wants the remaining teams directed to the Big12 to strengthen their newly formed partnership, Rose Bowl vs. Cotton Bowl, and the power that comes with that. The PAC raiding the Big12 could eventually shift the balance of power in favor of the BIG/PAC. If the SEC can prevent that, it will leave the PAC without any attractive expansion candidates, thus forever putting a ceiling, lower than that of ours, on their earnings and partnership with the BIG.

Texas, of course, must be convinced of the bigger picture play of expansion. The obvious difficulties being the Texas'/Big12s' current attractive deal, and UT's ego/control issues.

Look forward to your thoughts....

I think you're spot on. The rest of the Big 12 WANTS expansion. Its Bevo who doesn't because the next round of moves will be the last. The Conference Armageddon that was predicted two years ago didn't happen all at once, but we're halfway there already with the SEC and Big 10 both at 14 and the ACC having already killed off the Big East. Going ahead and taking in the ACC refugees sets things in stone. Bevo then has no room left to maneuver....no way to squeeze a better deal out of the PAC and/or discard the Big 12 and go independent.....which is a big part of why the rest of the Big 12 wants this......

If the Big 10 raid on the ACC happens...the 2nd raid I should say, as atlantaGator predicts then its on. Then the SEC comes in and gobbles up the schools it wants and then what's left - which is still some fairly attractive pieces like sow, Clemson, Louisville, scUM, NC State maybe, Duke maybe - goes to the Big 12. I think Bevo's hand would be forced at that point.

On a side note, Slive was very clever to throw the Big 12 a lifeline a year ago. Killing them off would have strengthened the PAC and by filling up all the SEC's slots, would have left all the really prime ACC properties to the Big 10. As it is, Slive has outmaneuvered the PAC and put the SEC in a position to grab North Carolina and Virginia which would give the SEC a footprint of 108 million in the fastest growing region of the country AND a region that is much more passionate about college sports than any other except the Rust Belt which is in decline. Clever.

[slique7]

ATL:

Agree, we share the same feelings on UNC; they are in a position to pick between two great financial options, but that's where the similarities stop, at money. The BIG will tout it's academics, while the SEC it's football. Obviously, the question is; which one will they value more? In my opinion, the SEC brand makes a difference, and will be the difference in deciding which school is better on Saturday's. Whereas value is neither gained or lost academically, other than pretentious feelings that will eventually heal. I don't think their ego will allow State to be NC's premier football program. In sum, there is tangible VALUE in choosing the SEC.

Respectfully, I don't think you could be more wrong on the Big12. You don't think the SEC has a vested interest in the Big12, a conference that we just committed to as a post season partner? We don't do bad deals. The SEC isn't signing up for that deal, only to have the PAC come in and destroy it, while effectively strengthening their position (Rose Bowl) and leaving the SEC without an option to match. I think the SEC has proven, by leading CFB into it's last two era's, conf. championship games & BCS, that they deserve more respect and are much more big picture/forward thinking.

The remains of the Big12/ACC wouldn't deserve to play our champion, much less command the same money as the Rose Bowl. That has been proven, by the Big12 and really more so Texas, when we made our decision to partner with them, rather than the BigEast or ACC.

[slique7]

Hungary:

We are on the exact same page; the SEC is thinking many levels deeper than the opposition, as always. The Big12 move was completely strategic.
Delany is actually pretty good at this game, although, allowing us to get Missouri was a mistake. I think they truly thought Missouri was BIG , whenever they wanted, and the SEC moving on them was a giant wake up call. Notice Delany has been far more proactive since.
Delany is also slightly handicapped by the limitations of the PAC, and it's own less appealing location, while already trying to play catch up the bigger, more powerful brand: THE SEC!

[slique7]

By the way, it was the PAC & BIG that drew the line in the sand, with their precious Rose Bowl, MANY years ago. This is the SEC pissing all over it.