Per ESPN: NCAA to Hit Miami with "Lack of Institutional Control" (SEVERE PENALTY)

[nawlinsgator]

Most deserving fans.

[danky1313]

What seems to be happening with Shalala's response and some posters here is akin to a husband cheating on his wife many times over but steadfastly believing no harm (divorce, alimony, child support etc.) should be done to him and he should be able to live his life as if it never happen all because his wife went to AT&T and illegally got access to his phone records to get the proof of his cheating. Or Tiger Woods life.

Just because the investigation was done in an unethical way does not mean Miami's transgressions should be forgot and not dealt with beyond the meager self- imposed penalties. Sorry but that just doesn't fly.

[garygator]

Originally Posted by phideltdj

Is it a lack of instituitional control when the people running the instituition are controling or condoning the cheating...

I believe it is somewhat broader than that. Without looking up the wording of their regulation, the institution has a duty to take affirmative steps to make certain they are in compliance. At a minimum those steps include investigating anything suspicious, and not keeping their head in the sand or looking the other way.

I remember the NCAA's report criticized USC for taking no investigative steps following an article in the LA Times which referenced the agent having contact with Bush's family, or something of that nature.

[nawlinsgator]

Looks like Aubrey Hill is in the mix in this messup.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...d-probe-report

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

Originally Posted by TheGator

Wow. That statement by scUM is horrendous. They would have been better off saying nothing at all.

Basically they said it was the word of a felon vs. the word of a reputable financial institution.

[ArtVandelay]

Originally Posted by danky1313

What seems to be happening with Shalala's response and some posters here is akin to a husband cheating on his wife many times over but steadfastly believing no harm (divorce, alimony, child support etc.) should be done to him and he should be able to live his life as if it never happen all because his wife went to AT&T and illegally got access to his phone records to get the proof of his cheating. Or Tiger Woods life.

Just because the investigation was done in an unethical way does not mean Miami's transgressions should be forgot and not dealt with beyond the meager self- imposed penalties. Sorry but that just doesn't fly.

Actually, that is exactly what might happen in the court of law, so if it does go Miami's way, I won't be surprised. It's stupid that is the way the law works, but it is what it is.

[garygator]

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay

Actually, that is exactly what might happen in the court of law, so if it does go Miami's way, I won't be surprised. It's stupid that is the way the law works, but it is what it is.

But this is not a Court of law. UM has no constitutional rights to violate during this process which, in a criminal setting, would result in the release of a guilty defendant because the police overstepped.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by danky1313

What seems to be happening with Shalala's response and some posters here is akin to a husband cheating on his wife many times over but steadfastly believing no harm (divorce, alimony, child support etc.) should be done to him and he should be able to live his life as if it never happen all because his wife went to AT&T and illegally got access to his phone records to get the proof of his cheating. Or Tiger Woods life.

Just because the investigation was done in an unethical way does not mean Miami's transgressions should be forgot and not dealt with beyond the meager self- imposed penalties. Sorry but that just doesn't fly.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting UM should be let off the hook.

Here's an idea though, what if there was a new governing body in place that actually had the integrity to put schools like UM in their place.

The NCAA is a problem, not sure how you're missing that. This is a chance to CHANGE that. Crazy thought huh. Whether that means a complete revamp or just replacing the man at the top, we can move forward with a better system or at least better people and still take action or corrupt programs. The NCAA has zero credibility in the eyes of most right now, making the near future a plausible time period for public opinion to cause change to take place.

[gtr2x]

The NCAA has been a problem and had zero cred for a long time. They have always used questionable methods and have selectively doled out penalties. Hard to think anyone has been happy with their performance for a long time yet nothing has really changed. The only difference here is that they now have a president who has no PR savy and they are losing the media battle to UM, of all teams.

To me, Shalala is taking a big gamble with her comments which is getting her fav reviews amonst UM fans and the media. It may allow UM to skate or it may just pi$$ off the NCAA and they will hammer the Canes harder.

[HungaryGator]

Some of y'all are complaining about the NCAA piggybacking on a lawyer's subpoena power in a lawsuit? You consider this "unethical"? Seriously?

Do you have ANY clue the kinds of things the NCAA did to UF during their investigation in 1983-1984? Obviously not. You can't. Not if you're complaining about this. Allow me to take you on a stroll down memory lane.

- They hit us with 107 charges many of which they knew were simply absurd so as to pump up the total number of charges to get headlines in papers. To this day, I still hear idiots and trolls trying to claim we had 107 violations. What were some of these violations? Giving a kid a T-shirt on a recruiting trip. A T-shirt. Another one...assistant coach Lee McGriff was headed across town. A player had a job at a local business. Coach McGriff gave the player a ride to the place where he worked since he was headed that way anyway. YES! They actually tried to count this act of common freaking courtesy as a "major" violation. Another? OK. There was a kid who was a low level recruit we had sent a letter to in Jax a year or two before. His HS teammate was a good buddy. The buddy's dad was a UF alum. The buddy and his dad were going to a Gator game. So the buddy invites his friend (the low level recruit) along. They all went to the Swamp and watched the game. Normal everyday thing right? Not to the NCAA. Because the dad was a UF alum and because we had sent him a recruiting letter among the hundreds of other kids who get one in the initial screening, they counted this as a "major" violation. Nevermind that we never recruited him beyond that one letter because...he was a low level recruit.

Want more?

OK

I know a poster on another Gator board who is a prof at UF. She was a student at UF at the time and had a part time job as a waitress. One of the ditzy waitress chicks she worked with was impressed with one of the NCAA investigators because he was a lawyer. (she said this chick had awful taste in men). Anyhoo...the investigator somehow convinced this chick (money or whatever I don't know) to "seduce" various UF players....not actually sleep with them if she didn't want...just lead them on, take them to bars, get them drunk and then slyly ask them questions about their recruitment and/or any NCAA violations. This was taken as "evidence" by the NCAA.

want more?

OK. In 1989 Jarvis Williams made a child support payment of a couple hundred bucks that he owed. Some of the court docs had been sent to UF for him. Galen Hall handed him the envelope containing the documents. Jarvis said there was no money in the envelope. Galen Hall said there was no money in the envelope. The person who drove Jarvis to Palatka so he could make the payment to the court said he never saw any money in the envelope. Prior to going to court they had stopped at Jarvis' mom's house. She said she didn't see any money in the envelope. NCAA conclusion? THERE WAS MONEY! Proof? The "cuz we think so" standard of proof. I'm serious here. On the basis of "cuz we think so" we got a bowl ban in 1990 which cost us an SEC title.

THIS is the NCAA. This.

You want to complain about them paying some lawyer to ask questions for them? ROTFLMAO! GMAFB. This is a picnic. Its nothing.

We never got any mercy. Nobody ever had so much as an ounce of sympathy for us. Fine. I will now laugh and enjoy it every time another school gets drilled. I hope it hurts. I hope they drag out every investigation to torpedo their recruiting (like they did with us back in 1983-1984). I hope it comes out that the NCAA used slimy underhanded tactics to gather evidence. Then I hope they get crucified. Then I will savor every last cry of indignation from their fans about the treatment they got. How ya like it beyotches?

[CSpantheGatorFan]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

Some of y'all are complaining about the NCAA piggybacking on a lawyer's subpoena power in a lawsuit? You consider this "unethical"? Seriously?

Do you have ANY clue the kinds of things the NCAA did to UF during their investigation in 1983-1984? Obviously not. You can't. Not if you're complaining about this. Allow me to take you on a stroll down memory lane.

- They hit us with 107 charges many of which they knew were simply absurd so as to pump up the total number of charges to get headlines in papers. To this day, I still hear idiots and trolls trying to claim we had 107 violations. What were some of these violations? Giving a kid a T-shirt on a recruiting trip. A T-shirt. Another one...assistant coach Lee McGriff was headed across town. A player had a job at a local business. Coach McGriff gave the player a ride to the place where he worked since he was headed that way anyway. YES! They actually tried to count this act of common freaking courtesy as a "major" violation. Another? OK. There was a kid who was a low level recruit we had sent a letter to in Jax a year or two before. His HS teammate was a good buddy. The buddy's dad was a UF alum. The buddy and his dad were going to a Gator game. So the buddy invites his friend (the low level recruit) along. They all went to the Swamp and watched the game. Normal everyday thing right? Not to the NCAA. Because the dad was a UF alum and because we had sent him a recruiting letter among the hundreds of other kids who get one in the initial screening, they counted this as a "major" violation. Nevermind that we never recruited him beyond that one letter because...he was a low level recruit.

Want more?

OK

I know a poster on another Gator board who is a prof at UF. She was a student at UF at the time and had a part time job as a waitress. One of the ditzy waitress chicks she worked with was impressed with one of the NCAA investigators because he was a lawyer. (she said this chick had awful taste in men). Anyhoo...the investigator somehow convinced this chick (money or whatever I don't know) to "seduce" various UF players....not actually sleep with them if she didn't want...just lead them on, take them to bars, get them drunk and then slyly ask them questions about their recruitment and/or any NCAA violations. This was taken as "evidence" by the NCAA.

want more?

OK. In 1989 Jarvis Williams made a child support payment of a couple hundred bucks that he owed. Some of the court docs had been sent to UF for him. Galen Hall handed him the envelope containing the documents. Jarvis said there was no money in the envelope. Galen Hall said there was no money in the envelope. The person who drove Jarvis to Palatka so he could make the payment to the court said he never saw any money in the envelope. Prior to going to court they had stopped at Jarvis' mom's house. She said she didn't see any money in the envelope. NCAA conclusion? THERE WAS MONEY! Proof? The "cuz we think so" standard of proof. I'm serious here. On the basis of "cuz we think so" we got a bowl ban in 1990 which cost us an SEC title.

THIS is the NCAA. This.

You want to complain about them paying some lawyer to ask questions for them? ROTFLMAO! GMAFB. This is a picnic. Its nothing.

We never got any mercy. Nobody ever had so much as an ounce of sympathy for us. Fine. I will now laugh and enjoy it every time another school gets drilled. I hope it hurts. I hope they drag out every investigation to torpedo their recruiting (like they did with us back in 1983-1984). I hope it comes out that the NCAA used slimy underhanded tactics to gather evidence. Then I hope they get crucified. Then I will savor every last cry of indignation from their fans about the treatment they got. How ya like it beyotches?

Great stuff!

If there was an investigation into UF today (Like in the past), nobody would care what the ncaa did to bring us down. They would be pulling for us to get screwed over even if we didn't deserve it if anything. Why should I care about how they obtained the evidence to bring down an obviously corrupt miami program? As long as what they are finding is not fabricated (A luxury we didn't have), who cares? This isn't a court of law.

I just wish the ncaa would use some of it's "strategies" to bring down more corrupt programs.

[Ahab]

Any reforms to the NCAA are not going to be completed in 1 years, 2 years or even probably 5 years. Miami needs to be dealt with now and should get the punishment they deserve regardless of any missteps by the NCAA.

[BobK89]

Originally Posted by elrongator

I have personal knowledge that they decided as a staff to cheat under Schnellenberger.
Their philosophy was literally that they'd rather get fired for cheating than for losing.
Time to stick a fork in em till they're done!!!

That's ridiculous.

Sincerely,
The Ford Pinto

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by Donzo

With all due respect, your post is pathetic…

For you to perpetuate um as a victim is sickening. um massively cheated by giving Shapiro free reign to pass out money to their athletes for roughly seven years; which is part of an overall thirty year disregard of NCAA rules. um deserves Penn St. type penalties- period!

The fact the NCAA overstepped their scope in the investigation process does not give um pass on their massive cheating.

Exactly. Trying to draw moral equivalence between the Keystone Cops (NCAA) and Scarface (UM) is laughable.

However, it still wouldn't surprise me if the penalties aren't nearly as harsh. As I've stated before, UM is the team for the unaffiliated college football fan, the Notre Dame of scumbags, criminals, thugs and wannabe of all three. Take "Da U" out of the mix and a lot of those folks just go back to being exclusively NFL fans.

I hope they get nuked, but I'm not holding my breath.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by ArtVandelay

Curious. Did this POS give that money (the check) back to the folks Shapiro stole it from?

[danky1313]

Originally Posted by REM08

I haven't seen anyone suggesting UM should be let off the hook.

The president of the University of Miami is and then some. She almost sounds as if she thinks they should be let off the hook and given restitution.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by danky1313

The president of the University of Miami is and then some. She almost sounds as if she thinks they should be let off the hook and given restitution.

And allowed to keep the stolen money I presume.

[fubar1]

Shalala is waging a PR war against the NCAA. It's her only hope to get the Committee on Infractions to blink. She knows it's a high risk/high reward proposition and the chances of succeeding are probably 10-20%. But the alternative is probably sanctions that'd be close to what they would have been anyway.

Miami's going to lose 10-15 schollies a year and have recruiting visits limited. They'll be bowl eligible but the scholly loss will be enough for Golden to jump at the next big coaching opportunity.

[gator85jd]

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

Looks like Aubrey Hill is in the mix in this messup.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...d-probe-report

nawlins, it would be interesting if the three assistants conspired to mislead. The NCAA should dig further to see if there was an effort by UM administration to have them lie. It wouldn't surprise me.

"The NCAA believes that former Miami assistant coaches Clint Hurtt, Aubrey Hill and Jorge Fernandez provided false or misleading information during the probe into the Hurricanes' athletic department.

The NCAA said all three violated "principles of ethical conduct" as part of the notice of allegations served against the Hurricanes, according to a person who spoke to The Associated Press on Wednesday on condition of anonymity because the allegations have not been released publicly."

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by fubar1

Shalala is waging a PR war against the NCAA. It's her only hope to get the Committee on Infractions to blink. She knows it's a high risk/high reward proposition and the chances of succeeding are probably 10-20%. But the alternative is probably sanctions that'd be close to what they would have been anyway.

Miami's going to lose 10-15 schollies a year and have recruiting visits limited. They'll be bowl eligible but the scholly loss will be enough for Golden to jump at the next big coaching opportunity.

Agreed. Miami got charged with lack of institutional control and is going to get hammered. There's nothing worse that the NCAA can do to them since the death penalty is off of the table so why not stir up a PR hornet nest and hope enough of the media buy it?