So let's say we go into financial ruin........

[dangolegators]

Originally Posted by FlyingGatorII

Actually, the income level you listed places you in the top 5%, not the definition of middle class. As far as what our daily life will look like, many feel we are headed towards a future that is Greece's present based on out of control spending and debt growth. At some point, the piper will have to be paid. The question is how long before that happens IMO...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/riots-...486_video.html

150k is not top 5%.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by dangolegators

150k is not top 5%.

That is true. It is top 9% though. Still not middle class in a traditional sense. The actual middle is about 51K a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...rcent-map.html

[vaxcardinal]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

So where do you buy gold, and where do you keep it? (Safe deposit box, or does some outfit, like a civilian Fort Knox, keep it for you?)

I keep seeing William Devane advertising something about gold (Roseland something) on TV but pay no attention to him. Should I turn up the volume?

http://www.goldennugget.com/amenitie..._to_go_atm.asp

[dangolegators]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

That is true. It is top 9% though. Still not middle class in a traditional sense. The actual middle is about 51K a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...rcent-map.html

Yes, it's still very upper middle class. This debate came up a while back. Some poster was upset that he was considered 'rich' (by mean old Obama) because he made 250k.

[oragator1]

Depends where you live, in Manhattan or DC it is middle class, the county I live in has a median home income of around 120k. 150k would be on the good side of middle class but hardly anything out of the norm. If you lived in rural Mississippi however, it would be living like a king.

[bluelang]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

Great advice. Thank you.

It really isn't. Gold has no intrinsic value in a post-money economy, and is on a multi-year bubble. His boner for gold is based on economic principals that were abandoned forever a hundred years ago - basically yearning for an easy-to-comprehend panacea (buy gold!) for an extraordinarily complex problem (mushrooming population of cheap labor abroad with aging domestic population).

You need to speak with an actual financial adviser - preferably a friend, not someone paid on commission - to ensure that your retirement fund has some resiliency in the face of inflation.

Whatever you do, the best advice I can give you is not to take advice from random people on the internet.

[dangolegators]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Whatever you do, the best advice I can give you is not to take advice from random people on the internet.

Now he's screwed. If he follows someone else's advice, he's not following your advice. And if he follow's your advice, he's not following your advice. He's trapped and there's no way out.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

So where do you buy gold, and where do you keep it? (Safe deposit box, or does some outfit, like a civilian Fort Knox, keep it for you?)

I keep seeing William Devane advertising something about gold (Roseland something) on TV but pay no attention to him. Should I turn up the volume?

I have a problem when celebrities come on TV and talk with conviction, like Devane or Fred Thompson and Robert Wagner for reverse mortgages. To me the problem with "correct" planning is that most of it is based on conventional wisdom. In an apocalyptic scenario, what is considered valuable today or in the past is not necessarily so in the future. I don't doubt that physical gold is better than a certificate that says we are all civilized and we respect your wealth claim. You are going to have to decide how far all of this is going to go before it blows up.

My take is that the certainty of a financial train wreck is about right up there with not buying oceanfront property in Florida because of the threat of being wiped out by a hurricane. Getting hit isn't the issue; how far in advance is. I anticipate that since we are WAY ahead of the rest of the world in wealth, our fall from grace is going to take a while. Remember that Rome wasn't built in a day and it didn't crumble in one either.

Inflation is going to come when the world (including us) decides that the Fed is playing a game instead of following a strategic monetary policy. Will that be this year? My take is only when there is a viable alternative place to "place your bet" in the world economy. Some say that is China where I think that we are co-joined and neither of us can survive in a superior position without the other. And China is going to have some real growing pains shortly when the low/middle class decide that they want more.

So, in summary I would start to acquire some non-paper wealth of some type, either land that you own outright and are prepared to homestead on (not just something to flip), some precious metal (gold or silver) where if you want to hedge use gold or if you see really big storm clouds then physical silver (more useful as a daily purchase tool). And buy it anywhere where you aren't paying the advertising fees for the celebrity endorsements (almost all good size cities have businesses that sell the stuff). I am thinking about all of the silverware that has been handed down as an equivalent to coins. Silver is silver.

And lastly, think about a dire financial situation like it is Sandy and the NJ coast. You need food, warmth, and protection for quite a long time. Having it already on hand is a whole lot better than waiting in line with everyone else, especially when lines can get compromised. Bullets and the gun(s) to feed in them is not the worse idea out there. Not to kill or steal but to send the signal that your wealth is not someone else's opportunity. Good luck in your planning.

[dangolegators]

Originally Posted by bluelang

It really isn't. Gold has no intrinsic value in a post-money economy, and is on a multi-year bubble. His boner for gold is based on economic principals that were abandoned forever a hundred years ago - basically yearning for an easy-to-comprehend panacea (buy gold!) for an extraordinarily complex problem (mushrooming population of cheap labor abroad with aging domestic population).

Yes. A can of beans would potentially be worth more than a pound of gold. The best thing to invest in for a post-money economy would be an underground bunker and tons of canned goods. And guns. Lots of guns.

[cocodrilo]

Originally Posted by tegator80

I am thinking about all of the silverware that has been handed down as an equivalent to coins. Silver is silver.

Hey, I've got plenty of silverware. But are all those knives and forks really silver, or are they just made to look like it? Can they be melted down? I'm willing to eat with my hands.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

Hey, I've got plenty of silverware. But are all those knives and forks really silver, or are they just made to look like it? Can they be melted down? I'm willing to eat with my hands.

Mine are all real. If they are stamped on the back then they are. One other way to tell is to heat up some water to boiling, put one into it (say half way) and let it sit for a minute. If it is something else inside it will feel reasonable to your touch when you pick it up. If it burns the crap out of you then it is solid silver. Silver (and gold) are incredible heat conductors. I personally wouldn't melt them down but keep them in their current shape. Maybe more value that way but at least no worse than a bar of the same weight.

[FlyingGatorII]

Originally Posted by dangolegators

150k is not top 5%.

http://money.usnews.com/money/person...-system?page=2

[sappanama]

Originally Posted by dangolegators

Yes, it's still very upper middle class. This debate came up a while back. Some poster was upset that he was considered 'rich' (by mean old Obama) because he made 250k.

so your middle spans 9-91%? seriously?, and depending on where he lives that may very well be top 5%. people can keep trying to make the middle class mean everyone, but that doesn't make it correct.

The next income level is what is commonly called the "5 percent," or the percentage of Americans who make more than $150,000 annually. At the top of the economic ladder is the so-called "1 percent," or households that earn more than $250,000 annually.http://money.usnews.com/money/person...c-class-system

[bluelang]

Originally Posted by dangolegators

Now he's screwed. If he follows someone else's advice, he's not following your advice. And if he follow's your advice, he's not following your advice. He's trapped and there's no way out.

That was the joke

[cocodrilo]

In 1965 I met an old man in a bar in Peru who said he knew where there was gold if I would pay for the expedition and go with him. I wish now I had done it instead of just paying for his beer.

[Burke]

A dollar today is worth about 4 cents compared to the dollar of a hundred years ago. Between 1985 and 2010, the dollar lost 50% of its value. And this is using govt inflation figures and is in spite of the fact that the amount of real wealth is much greater, which would have caused deflation with a stable money supply.

And the inflation that will be caused by the current spate of money printing is yet to be realized.

Meanwhile, gold has risen every year for the last 12 years.

The US is the greatest debtor nation in history. The only way it will ever "pay" its obligations is by printing massive amounts of money.

Central banks all over the world are buying gold.

What more do you need to know?

Anyone who keeps his assets in dollar holdings is going to loss his butt.

[bluelang]

Originally Posted by Burke

Meanwhile, gold has risen every year for the last 12 years.

Gold, over the same time span you measured the dollar, has not outpaced inflation by much.

Also, do you not see the irony of valuing gold in the same currency you're accusing of being worthless? For gold to be valuable past the collapse of the dollar, it has to have non-dollar value. Following the transitive property, you are preaching that gold is worthless.

Some weight of gold is worth $1000. $1000 is worth nothing. So what is that weight of gold worth?

What is gold's intrinsic worth?

It's a bubble. It'll burst soon enough.

[cocodrilo]

It's in a bank in the middle of Bevery Hills in somebody else's name.

[Burke]

Last I looked, the cost of a barrel of oil in gold was about the same today as in 1955, between 2 and 3 goldgrams. And the cost in dollars had increased about 30 times.

http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

It may turn out that keeping your wealth in gold will only preserve it. But if you had it in dollars, you will have lost all.

During the Great Depression, it was said that cash was king because those with cash could go around buying stuff for almost nothing. Then when the good times returned after the war, they were rich.

Our next depression will be an inflationary depression, most say, because the Fed is going to try to keep us out of it by printing money, just as it is doing.

And I believe gold and silver will be king and queen.

I might add that the value of gold is not primarily based on its intrinsic value, but upon its special qualities for use as a medium of exchange and a store of value.

That is, as money that cannot be printed.

[QGator2414]

Always interesting to see how people classify themselves based on earnings from one year of work...