NBN has changed my mind on things

[gatormann]

I s there anybody out there that doesn't think Kentucky will be among the favorites to win it all next season?

[regurgigator]

I've never accused Cal of cheating, because I have no way of knowing whether he does or not.

And, I've never complained that there's anything unethical about his methods, or that he or one-and-done players in general are hurting college basketball (because I don't think they are).

But, I hate the way Calipari runs the UK program, so I hope he fails miserably. (And, I had never felt that way about UK in the past. I used to pull for them regularly in the NCAA Tourney.)

Originally Posted by gatormann

I s there anybody out there that doesn't think Kentucky will be among the favorites to win it all next season?

I think there's a good chance they'll be considered a favorite and that they'll win a lot of games. But, unless just about all their freshman come in ready to excel and mesh as well as they did last season and that they have a very special player like an Anthony Davis materialize, I think they'll be like Cal's other great frosh-dominated teams that won a lot of games but ended up faltering under the pressure of the NCAA Tourney.

[austingtr]

I think cal is a good coach, and he might win another one, he recruits very well. I think he is shady, but innocent until proven guilty.

Having said that, I would hate him as my coach. Every year that KY team is different. Every year, there are new faces as starters, a new core, people to get to know fleetingly, and then follow in the NBA? Really, that is what college basketball is about? Noel is likely gone. Does anyone really think about John Wall or Cousins, the same way they feel about Patrick Patterson?

I was reading some posts at Rupp rafters regarding Billy d. They were saying he isn't a good developer of talent when he has "burger boys" as juniors and seniors. WTF??? Are they saying than Bledsoe, Orton, even Wall were developed by Cal? Really?
Billy's system is hard to learn, and the expectations he has for his players are extremely high. That is why you see guys staying until they get "it". If they are not willing to play in the system they leave (Kadji). But those who stay and have the physical tools, will be NBA successful- and quickly. How many Gators are stars right now? How many have played for years in the league? Billy is the best and it isn't even close.

[fox]

I am still, and will always be, shocked at how a young team like UK had last year could win the title. Not that a young team could do it, but that they played together and unselfish under Calipari. I saw it and still have a hard time believing it.

[gatorbogey]

there are only about,what?, four programs that could possibly run things like Cal does at UK. that can attract five 5* recruits to the program every year and make whole sale changes annually. only cal does it that way. so it's hard to get alot of data points on the strategy. but if you win a NC title once every 4 or 5 years: that is a pretty good trade off. you're doing something right.

i do think he'll see the merits in keeping players in the program for the long haul to provide continuity. makes the coaches's jobs so much easier. that's for sure.

[GothamGator]

You will have more seasons where a couple of the talented guys stay for their sophomore years and help guide a team to a deep run in March. You will also have more years like this where you lack experience and have some holes in the roster because it is so thin. You have to take the bitter with the sweet.

Feel better.

[akaGatorhoops]

I think Cal will win another title, and quite probably with the same approach. But the year-over-year turnover would take a lot of the fan-enjoyment out of the game for me.
What is enjoyable to me is looking forward to the growth and development of players.... even, and perhaps especially following non-title seasons. I could not wait for this season to start to see if these guys could build upon the elie 8 runs, and to watch guys like murph, boynton, wilby, yeguete, scottie and mike... improve.
That is one of the main reasons i watch and root.
That does not exist, for the most part, at uk.

[G8RNTN]

Originally Posted by dailydoublecat

REM no hacking just how I feel. Kentucky will start all over again next year with no core again. Unless Calipari changes his philosophy a bit we won't win. It really alarms me how Alex and Archie are leaving to the NBA when they do little if anything well.
Jeff

Didn't he pretty much start over and the class Wall, Bledsoe, Cousins etc... And won the next year? I may be wrong but I think that's the case.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by G8RNTN

Didn't he pretty much start over and the class Wall, Bledsoe, Cousins etc... And won the next year? I may be wrong but I think that's the case.

Yeah he did, but there were upperclass contributors in Miller, Liggins and Harrelson.

I have a few thoughts about this:

1) I think there's a little revisionist history to some of this. Remember, last years team was deemed by many too young and too reliant on freshmen to win a title. People weren't talking about Miller Jones and Lamb, for the most part.

2) I also think some of you are making more out of a national championship than you should. Sounds weird to say doesn't it? When we start talking about this, we are quick to forget how much luck is involved and how anything can happen over the course of six 40 minute single elimination games. In Cal's first year, he coached a team that only lost twice ALL regular season and shot HORRIBLY against a HOT shooting team in the elite eight - and lost. That team had more upperclass leadership than last years team did. The tournament allows for these kind of upsets to happen. Remember it was Kansas (the overall number 1 seed) that lost to Northern Iowa. They had experience AND talent also.

Cal's second season he coached a team, again with MORE upperclass leadership than last year, that ended up losing in the final four by 1 point to the eventual national champ. That team knocked out the overall number 1 seed Ohio State and one of the hottest teams going into the tourney in UNC. Oh yeah, that 1 point loss involved a free throw shooting effort of 4 out of 12.

There isn't some magical "must have" formula for winning a title IMO.

3) Its my contention that a team comprised of all the right freshmen could win a title. Will we ever see a class capable of this? I don't know. I think last years team wins the title with a freshmen Lamb/Jones instead of the sophomore pair. We'll never know though.

4) I also think the subject of Cal using a strategy to create his rosters or him planning is a little over used and innacurate. Two people that I think know what they're talking about and have good sources say that Cal's staff did not anticipate Bledsoe, Orton or Marquis Teague to be one and done. They also have had upperclassmen on EVERY roster including this year. Had last year's upperclass men not been good everyone would have said Cal's strategy is bad and he needs returning players. But they were good, so no one says that. This year he has a senior starter (who is limited) and Beckham, who people thought might develop into a Deandre Liggins type but he's been injured most of his stay at UK. They also have John Hood, who was at one point the high school senior who practiced with the team in pickup games and everyone said was the best player on the floor at the time. He has not turned out to be good at all. The players are there to a degree. As you guys see with your roster over the years, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. It isn't all because of some grand scheme that the coach has designed.

[GataBaitx3]

Originally Posted by dailydoublecat

When you are down with the flu and feel awful you have time to think and reflect. I have changed my mind on a few things!!
1. I now believe you have to have a core of upperclassmen for your team to be elite.
2. Kentucky will not win another title under Calipari. I do believe we caught lightning in a bottle.

You guys have been preaching to me for years and I finally get the message.
Jeff

Whoa, whoa. Take a look at the class you have coming in next year.

[don23lucia]

Originally Posted by dailydoublecat

When you are down with the flu and feel awful you have time to think and reflect. I have changed my mind on a few things!!
1. I now believe you have to have a core of upperclassmen for your team to be elite.
2. Kentucky will not win another title under Calipari. I do believe we caught lightning in a bottle.

You guys have been preaching to me for years and I finally get the message.
Jeff

I hope the UK staff have a come to Jesus meeting with Stein or the season could be toilet bowl for real and Goodwin for that matter did he not know that everyone on our team likes to take a charge. Jeff I don't think Harrow will be around next year his confidence and game is already in the toilet bowl, I dont know what they can do to boost his confidence at this point or if he even wants it.

UK needs to regroup real quick, The other day I thought for sure that Stein would be staying but a couple of reports are saying he could be a lottery pick now if he plays well.

I see where you're going with this but someone has to stay eventually for a sophomore run it just doesn't seem that way right now cause I think this group is gone, and so is the next group.

At least Wiltjer is staying

[manigordo]

I hope you are feeling better!

Call has as good a chance as any, and better than most at another title I have to agree with AKA that Cal's method leaves me cold simply because there is no team to watch develop. Much prefer Donovan and what we have enjoyed at UF. (Though many UF fans do suck the air out the joy at times.)

[tegator80]

I was also surprised that Cal pulled it off last year and I agree that there were some upper class players and a talented soph in Jones to help the freshmen get up to speed. Cal needs to make sure that he doesn't just rely on one-and-done's to move the program. Otherwise I am sure your pragmatism is well founded.

But I am more interested in what longtime UK fans think about the neauvo Kentucky players? I still can't see much enthusiasm for players such as Davis, Teague, MKG, etc., who most likely could care less about the institution of UK; just a hired gun. I am amazed at John Wall's play in the NBA, just as I am interested in seeing how Brad Beal evolves. But I am much more interested in seeing how the '04s are playing and CP, along with all of the older ones (Lee, Bonner, Haslem). My rooting allegiances in their future endeavors is directly related to their career contributions to the Gator uniform. And I would think that a banner flying in the rafters that says we went out and rented (no reference to cheating here!) a team for this is a little bit hollow for those truly connected to the university.

And, not to hijack the thread, I attribute all of this to the silly one-and-done rule. It mocks the ideals of college competition.

[Colin]

Originally Posted by REM08

Cal's strategy is surely not without risk and chance.

Exactly. He got you to the FF twice, with one title. No one should be complaining.

[newmexicogator]

Originally Posted by BEH

The only problem is that you are wrong.

Kentucky won only one title under Joe B. Hall, Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith.

Last year was the best team UK has ever had, in my opinion, and the core were freshmen, with two sophs and one senior.

Kentucky will win another title under Calipari.

The key to last years team was Darius Miller. You cannot convince me otherwise. When they faced adversity and the freshmen were clueless you had a guy like him picking up the slack. If you look at his tenure at UK he came in under a different coach where he underperformed and blossomed into a good player under Calipari. Bu the key was he stayed 4 years. I dont think any player who is good enough to be like Darius miller will stay for 4 yrs under Cal. That will be what prevents UK from winning another title IMO. The key to UFs 2006 title were Moss and Chris Richard who gave that stabilizing factor. Any NC team has a guy or two like that.

Does UF have a guy like that this year? I am hoping Murphy and KB are those guys. But it is yet to be seen.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by BEH

Last year was the best team UK has ever had, in my opinion, and the core were freshmen, with two sophs and one senior.

The 96 team would have beaten them, imo.

[rtgator]

Originally Posted by newmexicogator

The key to last years team was Darius Miller. You cannot convince me otherwise. When they faced adversity and the freshmen were clueless you had a guy like him picking up the slack. If you look at his tenure at UK he came in under a different coach where he underperformed and blossomed into a good player under Calipari. Bu the key was he stayed 4 years. I dont think any player who is good enough to be like Darius miller will stay for 4 yrs under Cal. That will be what prevents UK from winning another title IMO. The key to UFs 2006 title were Moss and Chris Richard who gave that stabilizing factor. Any NC team has a guy or two like that.

Does UF have a guy like that this year? I am hoping Murphy and KB are those guys. But it is yet to be seen.

I agree that Darius Miller doens't get enough credit for last year's UK title.

I remember that, in the Final Four last year, Louisville and Kansas both made runs to cut into UK leads. It was Miller who made the defensive plays and 3-point shots that pushed UK back into a comfortable lead. Without his contributions, who knows if UK could have held on to win both games?

Senior leadership made a difference.

[newmexicogator]

Originally Posted by austingtr

I think cal is a good coach, and he might win another one, he recruits very well. I think he is shady, but innocent until proven guilty.

Having said that, I would hate him as my coach. Every year that KY team is different. Every year, there are new faces as starters, a new core, people to get to know fleetingly, and then follow in the NBA? Really, that is what college basketball is about? Noel is likely gone. Does anyone really think about John Wall or Cousins, the same way they feel about Patrick Patterson?

I was reading some posts at Rupp rafters regarding Billy d. They were saying he isn't a good developer of talent when he has "burger boys" as juniors and seniors. WTF??? Are they saying than Bledsoe, Orton, even Wall were developed by Cal? Really?
Billy's system is hard to learn, and the expectations he has for his players are extremely high. That is why you see guys staying until they get "it". If they are not willing to play in the system they leave (Kadji). But those who stay and have the physical tools, will be NBA successful- and quickly. How many Gators are stars right now? How many have played for years in the league? Billy is the best and it isn't even close.

I think we should stop perpetuating the myth that BD's system is hard to learn. I don't think we have any clue about how one system is easier or difficult than another. If Cal's system is easy why did not Ryan Harrow who has been in the system for 2 yrs not picking it up. I guess when Bradley beal played as a freshman BD's system was not difficult to pick up. Do we say that cal's sytem is difficult because this years team has not picked it up? I think all this system stuff is a myth. If you have good players any system will work and bad players will make the system look bad/difficult to pick up.

[BEH]

Originally Posted by gatormann

I s there anybody out there that doesn't think Kentucky will be among the favorites to win it all next season?

Other than Jeff, No.

[108]

UK won last year because some unexpected players stayed a second year and they had some good role players from the previous regime to add to the freshman class

Cal has to find a way to mimic that or it will be a hard thing to duplicate

It's hard to respect Cal as a coach the way he does it now...all-world recruiter but what else?