Where does SW rank among the other PGs in the Billy D era?

[gatorlover974]

It's a very interesting cause ranking him with the others. We haven't had a PG who could do it all like him in a while. He's more explosive than Calathes, a better defender than Green, and a smarter player than walker. Where would you rank him compared to the great PGs we've had in the Billy D years

[madgator]

#2 behind green and making a strong case for #1


IF he leads our team to 1 national title....he will pass Green for managing a team to just as much with less.


for the past hour I am trying to think of better defensive PG's over the past 20-25 years and I can't think of one. MAYBE Greg Anthony or Gary Payton

although I think SW is better in all aspects of defense than either......can't believe I'm saying that but after tonight I'm starting to go there

so I'm digging a little deeper and taking defensive perimeter players that were outstanding

Stacy Augman (#1 on my all time list of perimeter college players that I have seen)
Grant Hill
Ray Allen
Shane Battier
Wojo and aaron craft (if I have to)

all players who won national defensive player of the year (other than allen and craft).....SW is playing at a level equal or better to any of them

this is something special......

[gatorlover974]

Originally Posted by madgator

#2 behind green and making a strong case for #1

IF he leads our team to 1 national title....he will pass Green for managing a team to just as much with less.

for the past hour I am trying to think of better defensive PG's over the past 20-25 years and I can't think of one. MAYBE Greg Anthony or Gary Payton

although I think SW is better in all aspects of defense than either......can't believe I'm saying that but after tonight I'm starting to go there

so I'm digging a little deeper and taking defensive perimeter players that were outstanding

Stacy Augman (#1 on my all time list of perimeter college players that I have seen)
Grant Hill
Ray Allen
Shane Battier
Wojo and aaron craft (if I have to)

all players who won national defensive player of the year (other than allen and craft).....SW is playing at a level equal or better to any of them

this is something special......

Green also was playing with 3 NBA lottery picks, two of which went on to become NBA all stars. Honestly I'm starting to think SW is the best PG we've ever had. His game reminds me a lot of Derron Williams and I can see SW becoming a starting PG in the NBA. He honestly could average around 15 pts a game if he wanted to at UF.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by gatorlover974

Green also was playing with 3 NBA lottery picks, two of which went on to become NBA all stars. Honestly I'm starting to think SW is the best PG we've ever had. His game reminds me a lot of Derron Williams and I can see SW becoming a starting PG in the NBA. He honestly could average around 15 pts a game if he wanted to at UF.

Deron is a much more stoud physical presence. Probably a better shooter. More explosive finisher at the rim......I get what you're saying but not quite on that level.


as for Green....what I loved about him was his ability on the offensive end that if we need him to score 25+.....he would score 25+

Green was a big moment shot taker and he hit some big ones especially in that '05-'06 season.

Scottie however is such a difference maker on defense. His net effect on the game is so highly positive between defensive presence and game management that I am really tilting where you are leaning.

just not there yet.....we need to see an end point of leadership! (bleep you EW fans!)

[InstiGATOR1]

My view is that Donovan has basically only had two point guards while at UF, Green and Wilbekin. Donovan has more often has a lead guard like Nelson or Roberson etc. I think UF's teams are generally much better with PGs.

Right now I would rate Green better. In a year when Wilbekin's career is over, I might change. Green was a fabulous ball handlers, certainly better than Wilbekin. He also was better offensively, but not nearly as much better as many thought. Wilbekin is clearly a better defender, but Green was not bad at all.

The 2005-2007 Gators had one ball handler in Green. One of the strengths of this team is that Boynton can handle the point some of the time too. It always amazed me that other teams did not try to cut of the head of the snake with Green and get him in foul trouble to see how those teams would have done with Hodge and Humphrey bring the ball up the court.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

My view is that Donovan has basically only had two point guards while at UF, Green and Wilbekin. Donovan has more often has a lead guard like Nelson or Roberson etc. I think UF's teams are generally much better with PGs.

Right now I would rate Green better. In a year when Wilbekin's career is over, I might change. Green was a fabulous ball handlers, certainly better than Wilbekin. He also was better offensively, but not nearly as much better as many thought. Wilbekin is clearly a better defender, but Green was not bad at all.

The 2005-2007 Gators had one ball handler in Green. One of the strengths of this team is that Boynton can handle the point some of the time too. It always amazed me that other teams did not try to cut of the head of the snake with Green and get him in foul trouble to see how those teams would have done with Hodge and Humphrey bring the ball up the court.

while I grant you that Green had the sole responsibility of ball handling and game management.

he was also up there in the worst perimeter defenders during the BD era.

AWFUL

Horrendous

flat out bad......but was able to have it covered up by the fact that we had arguably the best defensive front court in college basketball in the past 30-40 years.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by madgator

he was also up there in the worst perimeter defenders during the BD era.

AWFUL

Horrendous

flat out bad......but was able to have it covered up by the fact that we had arguably the best defensive front court in college basketball in the past 30-40 years.

Maybe I just missed it because Noah, Horford and Brewer covered for him as you suggest. I really to no remember thinking he was a bad defender ever during the two years he played a lot.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Maybe I just missed it because Noah, Horford and Brewer covered for him as you suggest. I really to no remember thinking he was a bad defender ever during the two years he played a lot.

I remember laughing during the Butler game where the point guard, who was a highly regarded play maker, would have no trouble getting into the paint against our 2-3 and then literally stop mid-way in, keep his dribble and go right back out as he had no options at all.

must've happened like 10-15 times that game.

joakim noah was one of the best I have seen at coming out with discipline to attack the ball handler but still not over commit to make himself vulnerable to the drive.

oh, and he had Horford and Brewer with him across the baseline. talk about a rock and a hard place!


personally, I always thought lee humphrey (while a solid perimeter defender) was a bit over-rated in this regard.

Our front court was just completely unfair defensively between length, discipline, footwork, athleticism, and size.

[jeffphillips21]

easily top 2-3. green has to be up there also. don't forget we have Kasey Hill coming next year too, could change

[regurgigator]

The main thing I usually look for in a PG is playmaking/passing ability and Calathes had a huge edge in that category over any other Donovan PG (as long as we don't count Jason Williams). Plus, he was a better scorer and rebounder than Wilbekin or Green.

But, Wilbekin's amazing defensive ability is hard to ignore.

I would love to have been able to put Calathes in with a lineup like the 04's or with a lineup like this year's team which has so many shooters/weapons.



So:

With this year's team, if I had all of Donovan's PGs on the roster at the prime of their careers and had to choose a starter (again, excluding JWill), I would have to go with Wilbekin over any of them, because the identity of this team is so much about their incredible defense.

But, for the championship teams (and any of Donovan's other teams), I would start Calathes over any of Donovan's other PGs.



I thought it was more obvious in this game than any other game so far this season that our offense flows a lot better when Wilbekin is in the game. Wilbekin definitely continues to improve on the offensive end (where I think both Calathes and Green to a lesser extent had the edge), and who knows where he'll be later on in his Gator career?

[gatorbogey]

really really impressed w/ SW's defense, but that's been known. have been [more] impressed w/ his advancement in his offense and ball handling over the course of this season. at least to my untrained eyes. his confidence too is now, seemingly, off the charts. that's what you need from a pg. he's fearless. tenacious. really takes pride in his defense.

[GatorRade]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

My view is that Donovan has basically only had two point guards while at UF, Green and Wilbekin. Donovan has more often has a lead guard like Nelson or Roberson etc. I think UF's teams are generally much better with PGs.

This is an interesting perspective considering that Calathes almost broke our school's assist record in 2 years. And Nelson was a hell of a passer as well. He led the 2000 team in assists from the bench as a freshman I believe.

I do agree that Roberson, JHam, Hodge, Boynton, Walker were all non-pure point guards. But I believe that our offense would be even more lethal with Calathes running the running the show.

[LightMan]

I know that assit last night was about as sick as it gets. Had to rewind that about 8 times...

[tilly]

Also, I think the "benching" at the start of the game the other day refocused SW. A simple but effective move by Billy.

SW handled it well and bounced back strong.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

These types of questions are usually better answered at the end of seasons, not at the end of a great game. Perceptions tend to get temporarily skewed.

[exiledgator]

I just think it's great that this thread even exists.

I don't think there's a poster here that would have imagined us having this conversation 4 months ago.

Way to go, Scottie!

[ReggieNelson]

i think some of you guys are smoking something. scottie is a solid college point guard that plays excellent defense. his playmaking ability has improved drastically since he has been here. he still has a lot to improve on, however he is no where near an NBA player. He lacks elite quickness and ball handling skills.

In my mind, the best pure PG we've ever had was Nick Calathes, at least on the offensive end. Too bad he didn't have the right competitive mindset.

[themistocles]

It is, of course, utterly impossible to make such comparisons for the following very obvious reasons:
1 - Each PG/G played with a different set of teammates, which strongly influences everything about one's performance.
2 - Each PG/G played against a different set of opponents, which strongly influences everything about one's performance.

However, perceiving these limitations, let me note a few points:

Calathas was, like Walker, a defensive liability. To quote his teammate, "He can't jump over a newspaper" and that lack of jumping ability associates with a general lack of quickness due to lack of muscle power. Calathas skill level was, however, literally off the charts, and his basketball IQ was also very high. I just don't think he was one of the Gator's better PGs under Billy D.

Green and Humphrey benefited from a front court that was a disaster area for offensive players, as was noted.

Jason Williams was a one man disaster area himself.

Bret Nelson during the end of his Freshman and his Sophomore years, was an incredibly dangerous offensive weapon. He was nowhere near Wilbekin's level regarding defense, but he did have a way, similar to ole Jerry West, of stealing the ball.

Wilbekin is very, very good, and quite complete, although his defensive prowess is what generally attracts one's attention.

Like I said, you can't really compare, but Wilbekin has been one of my favorite players of all time from the first game he played, because he always did what is needed and is the ultimate team player as well as being a deadly defensive weapon.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Love Scotty's game, his backdoor cuts to the basket and his ability to finish at the rim have gotten significantly better. He still is not the greatest ballhandler or passer. His defense is unparalleled. All of that being said, last night was a difficult game to judge Scottys performance as Kentucky guards were just awful and provided very little resistance from the defensive standpoint, Scotty could drive at will and when Noel wasn't in there there was nobody to stop him

[GatorsGators]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Love Scotty's game, his backdoor cuts to the basket and his ability to finish at the rim have gotten significantly better. He still is not the greatest ballhandler or passer. His defense is unparalleled. All of that being said, last night was a difficult game to judge Scottys performance as Kentucky guards were just awful and provided very little resistance from the defensive standpoint, Scotty could drive at will and when Noel wasn't in there there was nobody to stop him

Huh?