When does PF Randle decide?

[jmoliver]

I guess I am just blind. I dont see Young doing anything in the NBA. He has not progressed very much at the offensive end since he was a freshman. His court awareness is really lacking.

[ApexNC]

Originally Posted by jmoliver

I guess I am just blind. I dont see Young doing anything in the NBA. He has not progressed very much at the offensive end since he was a freshman. His court awareness is really lacking.

I think he's one that the 20-hour rule hurts a lot. With his physical and mental abilities, an NBA team could make him a solid player. Imagine basketball being his full-time job instead of a 20-hour a week thing. Billy said Young and Yeguette were working on free throws on their own time....but there presumably weren't coaches there to work with them on form, rhythm, etc. I'm not saying he'll be an all star...and maybe not even a starter, but he should be a solid contributor, IMO.

[Colin]

Patric could make himself a lot of money if he returned for his senior year and learned how to shoot the ball, both from short range and from the charity stripe. Right now I wouldn't draft him. He has an NBA body, for sure, but he also needs an offensive game to help an NBA team.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by jmoliver

I guess I am just blind. I dont see Young doing anything in the NBA. He has not progressed very much at the offensive end since he was a freshman. His court awareness is really lacking.

That's just crazy. He had no offensive skills whatsoever as a freshman, but last year developed a nice hook going both directions. This season, he is far more consistent in other phases, like boxing out, staying connected to his man in transition, communicating and switching on defense, stopping the ball on penetration, etc.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by rserina

That's just crazy. He had no offensive skills whatsoever as a freshman, but last year developed a nice hook going both directions. This season, he is far more consistent in other phases, like boxing out, staying connected to his man in transition, communicating and switching on defense, stopping the ball on penetration, etc.

A year and a half ago we were all worried if Young could develop any offensive moves and reduce his fouling enough to stay in a game as a Soph. Now a guy who has shown a hook from several spots, a step through move and hit a few face up shots this year has not developed an offensive game. As you say, crazy.

[jmoliver]

OK, I am crazy but he still has a very limited game. And no he can not hit the hook going both directions. He was lost on Saturday.

[jmac83]

It's an effective hook going to the right, but I have to agree, I can't recall Pat even trying to go to the left with a hook.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by ApexNC

I think he's one that the 20-hour rule hurts a lot. With his physical and mental abilities, an NBA team could make him a solid player. Imagine basketball being his full-time job instead of a 20-hour a week thing. Billy said Young and Yeguette were working on free throws on their own time....but there presumably weren't coaches there to work with them on form, rhythm, etc. I'm not saying he'll be an all star...and maybe not even a starter, but he should be a solid contributor, IMO.

This is why the notion that players have to stay in college to develop is silly. They have to attend and pass classes, eat a college athlete diet (which according to a recent article is lacking for an athlete) and practice limited hours much of the year.

I think sometimes this is an explanation for why you see players take off once they hit the NBA compared to how they played in college. There are lots of factors and every player is different. But you'd think that players, all out, stop developing once they leave college for all the people you see posting about staying being in a players best interest. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Patric Young is going to be what he is going to be in the NBA. His fourth year in college likely isn't going to play a big role either way for him. You can make a case for some players who needed that fourth year to end up getting drafted, or for a player to be able to showcase part of their game that they haven't been able to show yet.

[MadduxFanII]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

A year and a half ago we were all worried if Young could develop any offensive moves and reduce his fouling enough to stay in a game as a Soph. Now a guy who has shown a hook from several spots, a step through move and hit a few face up shots this year has not developed an offensive game. As you say, crazy.

I'm with you and rserina. No, he doesn't have the offensive game of Horford or Speights. But he's good at what he does and he's an exceptionally positive force.

I think Patric is suffering the perception issues that a lot of guys like him have to deal with. In Young's case, it can probably be blamed on his physique. Fans look at him, at someone who looks like THAT, and assume he should be dominating every single play. And when he doesn't, every failure is chalked to some kind of moral or personal failing, a lack of effort or willpower, because someone who looks like Young has no excuse for ever getting pushed off the block or missing a rebound or not going up strong with the ball.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by MadduxFanII

I'm with you and rserina. No, he doesn't have the offensive game of Horford or Speights. But he's good at what he does and he's an exceptionally positive force.

I think Patric is suffering the perception issues that a lot of guys like him have to deal with. In Young's case, it can probably be blamed on his physique. Fans look at him, at someone who looks like THAT, and assume he should be dominating every single play. And when he doesn't, every failure is chalked to some kind of moral or personal failing, a lack of effort or willpower, because someone who looks like Young has no excuse for ever getting pushed off the block or missing a rebound or not going up strong with the ball.

I don't think thats entirely unfair. Its certainly not a moral thing, you're right there. But guys who are built like Patric should have different (but appropriate) expectations than guys who aren't. When you see a player that CAN dominate physically only do that some of the time, thats an issue. It doesn't make him a bad person or even lazy, but I think it does speak (or can speak) to a players mentality or motor. Some players just haven't learned how to give 100% for an entire game. These same questions are being asked about Alex Poythress, who has the build/athleticism to do MUCH more than he has so far. Its fair. Its a statement on someone as a basketball player, not as a person.

[don23lucia]

Originally Posted by REM08

[/b]


I don't think thats entirely unfair. Its certainly not a moral thing, you're right there. But guys who are built like Patric should have different (but appropriate) expectations than guys who aren't. When you see a player that CAN dominate physically only do that some of the time, thats an issue. It doesn't make him a bad person or even lazy, but I think it does speak (or can speak) to a players mentality or motor. Some players just haven't learned how to give 100% for an entire game. These same questions are being asked about Alex Poythress, who has the build/athleticism to do MUCH more than he has so far. Its fair. Its a statement on someone as a basketball player, not as a person.

From what I saw from poytress late last year I was really upset we didnt land him and UK did. I thought for sure he would be the #1 pick in the draft coming up after he got comfortable and settled in at uk. He could be a monster if it all starts to click for him or maybe hes just more ready to play in the nba like maggette or marvin williams I dont know but who does

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Young or Chris Richards, who is better? Richards was a second round pick and I'm not sure he is with a team anymore. Young may have a higher ceiling but as a full time starter I would bet Chris would have better numbers, he had great hands and was a strong finisher, neither showed much ability away from right under the rim1 an interesting discussion

[MadduxFanII]

Originally Posted by REM08

[/b]


I don't think thats entirely unfair. Its certainly not a moral thing, you're right there. But guys who are built like Patric should have different (but appropriate) expectations than guys who aren't. When you see a player that CAN dominate physically only do that some of the time, thats an issue. It doesn't make him a bad person or even lazy, but I think it does speak (or can speak) to a players mentality or motor. Some players just haven't learned how to give 100% for an entire game. These same questions are being asked about Alex Poythress, who has the build/athleticism to do MUCH more than he has so far. Its fair. Its a statement on someone as a basketball player, not as a person.

Well, I can disagree with some of this, but I don't think it's wrong. It's reasonably fair if the player in question isn't playing very well in spite of obvious physical gifts.

The problem comes when a player is undeniably having a good season and positively contributing (Young) and the refrain is still, "He could be doing so much better. Just look at him!" It becomes a situation where a player's talent or physique makes it impossible for him to ever satisfy a certain percentage of the fanbase, because they're convinced that, no matter his performance level, there's always a higher plane he could easily achieve if he trust tried a little harder.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by don23lucia

From what I saw from poytress late last year I was really upset we didnt land him and UK did. I thought for sure he would be the #1 pick in the draft coming up after he got comfortable and settled in at uk. He could be a monster if it all starts to click for him or maybe hes just more ready to play in the nba like maggette or marvin williams I dont know but who does

Yeah I'm with you in thinking he was a possible #1 pick. I don't think he was overrated, I just don't think he's adjusted to the college game as quickly as others have. The intensity and effort required to play well in college is just a foreign language to him right now. I feel bad for him right now because its clear he's trying at times and just isn't yet able to control himself. He's either disappearing into the background or he's an unstoppable charging machine (not a good thing - bull in a china shop - even though mythbusters debunked that one). Occasionally he shows glimpses of greatness. I still would take a sophomore Poythress over a freshmen Randle or Gordon. Maybe you're right about the NBA thing though. We don't know but we'll see.

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by rserina

We've had two low post players average fifteen points per game during Donovan's tenure. One was Haslem, whose best scoring seasons came on teams with massive injury problems or at times few other scoring options on the perimeter, and the other was Speights, who played on possibly our worst team since Donovan's first year. This year, we not only play slower than some of those other teams and thus get fewer shot attempts up, but we also have two volume shooters on the perimeter, a point guard who can get his own points off the bounce, and a shooting four who merits his fare share of shots. For Young to get fifteen points a game, he would need to shoot about 90% from the floor--literally. He shoots over 61% now on just under seven attempts a game for a 10.8 ppg average and upping that average to 15 would equate to hitting roughly two more attempts per game, or 89% of his total shot attempts.

Regardless, my argument is that you can't measure his game by his offensive productivity, so if that is your point, then I agree.

I think that Patric is having a good year, but his 7 attempts per game is a little misleading. He gets balls in position to score that he passes out to teammates. Now, I like that unselfishness, but I watch Patric and think that he good throw a few head fakes and jam the ball down people's throats.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by REM08

Yeah I'm with you in thinking he was a possible #1 pick. I don't think he was overrated, I just don't think he's adjusted to the college game as quickly as others have. The intensity and effort required to play well in college is just a foreign language to him right now. I feel bad for him right now because its clear he's trying at times and just isn't yet able to control himself. He's either disappearing into the background or he's an unstoppable charging machine (not a good thing - bull in a china shop - even though mythbusters debunked that one). Occasionally he shows glimpses of greatness. I still would take a sophomore Poythress over a freshmen Randle or Gordon. Maybe you're right about the NBA thing though. We don't know but we'll see.

One thing some potential one and done recruits have not considered is that it might be easier to adjust to the college game if like Bradley Beal last year or Anthony Bennett this year if you are one of the few adjust rather than one of a bunch. That is someone who wants to be one and done might better accomplish that goal if surround by a SR, 3 JRs and 2 Soph rather than playing with a bunch of other inexperienced guys. Certainly some of the Frosh at UCLA and UK this year might be wondering about that.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

One thing some potential one and done recruits have not considered is that it might be easier to adjust to the college game if like Bradley Beal last year or Anthony Bennett this year if you are one of the few adjust rather than one of a bunch. That is someone who wants to be one and done might better accomplish that goal if surround by a SR, 3 JRs and 2 Soph rather than playing with a bunch of other inexperienced guys. Certainly some of the Frosh at UCLA and UK this year might be wondering about that.

There's no question what you're suggesting could help. Cal always says that its important for a coach to be able to point to another guy in practice and say "LOOK! do it like that guy is doing it!" I'm with ya there.

I just don't think this is a requirement at all. The UK players each of the last few years were one of a bunch. Noel has no one to look upto or depend on and he's flourishing. I think its more about the mentality/maturity of the player. I think so far with Cal's classes, we usually have more Noel's than Poythresses and this year we certainly don't. Would have been a nice year to either have more Noels or some more useful vets.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by REM08

There's no question what you're suggesting could help. Cal always says that its important for a coach to be able to point to another guy in practice and say "LOOK! do it like that guy is doing it!" I'm with ya there.

I just don't think this is a requirement at all. The UK players each of the last few years were one of a bunch. Noel has no one to look upto or depend on and he's flourishing. I think its more about the mentality/maturity of the player. I think so far with Cal's classes, we usually have more Noel's than Poythresses and this year we certainly don't. Would have been a nice year to either have more Noels or some more useful vets.

Of course the past 3 UK teams include:

2009-10: Patterson, Harrelson, Miller, Liggins
2010-11: Harrelson, Miller, Liggins
2011-12: Miller, Jones, Lamb

This team is struggling to adjust without such players. You can counter with this team has Harrow, Mays and Wiltjer. But Harrow and Mays transfered at least once rather than adjusted and Wiltjer is not Jones or Lamb.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Of course the past 3 UK teams include:

2009-10: Patterson, Harrelson, Miller, Liggins
2010-11: Harrelson, Miller, Liggins
2011-12: Miller, Jones, Lamb

This team is struggling to adjust without such players. You can counter with this team has Harrow, Mays and Wiltjer. But Harrow and Mays transfered at least once rather than adjusted and Wiltjer is not Jones or Lamb.

Yeah I see your point and agree it helps. Just can't call it a requirement yet.

IMO, if this years team was made up of freshmen named Wall, Knight, MKG and Noel (could include Beal, Bennett, etc), I think the on-court product would be very impressive despite the lack of experience. I think some guys come to college much more ready to contribute and others not as ready no matter the team that surrounds them. Not disagreeing with you, just think there's a point at which experience doesn't matter as much - depending on the makeup of the freshmen.

[dnigels]

Any news on Randle?