Modern Liberals And Hatred Of The Good

[Burke]

Ayn Rand wrote that the morality of selflessness and self-sacrifice has led to something she called "hatred of the good because it's good." I've written about it here before. I've also quoted American-Israeli journalist Caroline Glick, a Jew who writes for the Jerusalem Post, discussing something she calls "Jewish self-hatred."

I agree that the morality of altruism and these supposed virtues are widespread in the Western World and are, along with their phosophical underpinning, destroying it. But because these beliefs are so ingrained here, it's not easy to convince others.

But here and there, people are beginning to get it.

The link below is to an interview with a former Jewish liberal, Evan Sayat, who has written a book on the mind of the modern liberal. I haven't read the book, but his interview is very, very insightful. There are too many good quotes in it for me to give them all, but here is one:

"The bottom line is that the Modern Liberal is convinced that it is beliefs – not what those beliefs are but any belief at all – that are not only evil, but the font of all war, poverty, crime and injustice. They’re convinced that thinking is a hate crime – an act so heinous as to render one evil for simply engaging in it and an act that requires one to revile anyone who engages in it. The notion behind this hatred for thinking is that anything a person believes is going to have been so tainted by his personal bigotries – bigotries we all possess as simply part of the human experience, bigotries based on such things as the color of our skin, the nation of our ancestry, our height, weight, sex and so on – that the only way not to be an evil bigot is to never think at all."

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/jamie-g..._4eD-YjU.email

Unfortunately, Sayat is apparently religious and doesn't seem to grasp that this liberal disease he sees is not confined to liberals, but is endemic to Western culture. I have long thought of modern liberals as just the children of religious conservatives rejecting their parents' hypocrisy, being even more selfless and self-sacrificial-and, therefore, even more self-destructive.

Rand wrote once that Sunday school is just elementary education for communism.

After all, would Jesus have opposed Obamacare, etc.?

Anyway, I highly recommend the interview linked above. You may even decide to get the book.

[g8orbill]

all you have to do is read too hot to see the envy

[wgbgator]

To call yourself a "liberal" is to be a skeptic of any firm belief, absolute, value judgment, ideology or orthodoxy (even the idea of progress itself). With that, I sort of agree. I don't agree with the idea that that is "not thinking." Indeed, that seems the height of reason to me. Nor does liberalism suppose an end to injustice or bigotry. It only supposes that there are democratic ways to mitigate such things.

[Burke]

Classical liberalism, the characteristic way of thinking here in the 19th century, was all about reason, tolerance, freedom, etc. But modern liberalism is just the opposite: mindlessness, destruction, and repression-occasionally pretending that it's still what it used to be.

Skepticism as an epistemology is also mindlessness, people claiming to know they can really know nothing.

A simple contradiction used to attack thinking others.

While the skeptics claim to know all sorts of stuff themselves.

Which they eagerly seek to impose by force.

[rivergator]

The modern liberal believes that all beliefs are evil? Is that from the Onion?

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Burke

Classical liberalism, the characteristic way of thinking here in the 19th century, was all about reason, tolerance, freedom, etc. But modern liberalism is just the opposite: mindlessness, destruction, and repression-occasionally pretending that it's still what it used to be.

Skepticism as an epistemology is also mindlessness, people claiming to know they can really know nothing.

A simple contradiction used to attack thinking others.

While the skeptics claim to know all sorts of stuff themselves.

Which they eagerly seek to impose by force.

I don't think liberalism has changed much. What's changed is how people interact with each other in an industrial and post-industrial society, calling into question older notions of what freedom and tolerance mean. But really, your critique of liberalism is not much different from the Jacobin left's criticism of liberalism.

[Burke]

Classical liberalism = individual rights, very limited govt., and free enterprise.

Modern liberalism = collectivism, mostly of the Marxist variety, statism, and "positive" rights ( i.e. the "right" to force others to provide you with things).

Not much difference there, you say?

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Burke

Classical liberalism = individual rights, very limited govt., and free enterprise.

Not much difference there, you say?

I don't think you have any understanding of the left or liberalism. In fact, that's my general critique of the right in this country. They seem to now believe the strawmen they have set up to attack liberals for the last several decades.

[fredsanford]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I don't think you have any understanding of the left or liberalism. In fact, that's my general critique of the right in this country. They seem to now believe the strawmen they have set up to attack liberals for the last several decades.

+1

This is all thanks to the Fox bubble. They are all very successfully programmed in their alternate reality Mstrix.

[Burke]

My views on this are essentially the same as they were 50 years ago.

As far as my understanding of liberalism, I understand it far better than you.

And the truth is that both leftists and rightists are essentially the same thing.

Socialists.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Burke

My views on this are essentially the same as they were 50 years ago.

As far as my understanding of liberalism, I understand it far better than you.

And the truth is that both leftists and rightists are essentially the same thing.

Socialists.

If you do, I havent seen any demonstration of that.

[WESGATORS]

The argument is (or should be) about more government control or less government control in various realms of our society. To make things absolute is to express a lack of interest in a genuine discussion of the topic. For instance, Burke, what if the paintbrushed liberals don't want a military? Are you a thief and good-hater for wanting them to help fund one? That is an areas where you may be in favor of "more government" where they might be in favor of "less government."

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[108]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I don't think you have any understanding of the left or liberalism. In fact, that's my general critique of the right in this country. They seem to now believe the strawmen they have set up to attack liberals for the last several decades.

spot on

they are arguing against a concept put forth to them by those who benefit from it

[108]

even with the tiny bit of control that Gov has exerted to tax a very small percent of people who wont pay for health insurance, nothing much has changed in the 4 years that has caused an explosion of conservative vitriol towards all things collective

we went through a massive recession where Gov spending goes up to offset the decline...its happened during every recession

most of it is just in their heads and fed to them daily by those who benefit from division

they will shut up when the next Republican is in office and Democrats will begin bitching

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

The argument is (or should be) about more government control or less government control in various realms of our society. To make things absolute is to express a lack of interest in a genuine discussion of the topic. For instance, Burke, what if the paintbrushed liberals don't want a military? Are you a thief and good-hater for wanting them to help fund one? That is an areas where you may be in favor of "more government" where they might be in favor of "less government."

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

I sort of agree, but its not really more/less government. Essentially, we're arguing over where markets function best (and what degree of regulation/oversight is needed) and where they don't.

[Minister_of_Information]

Eschatological dualism, not thought itself, is the enemy. Of course that includes most anything that has a Utopian outcome, including the movement to eradicate eschatological dualism itself. In sum there is no cure for the human condition, other than realizing that there is no cure.

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Eschatological dualism, not thought itself, is the enemy. Of course that includes most anything that has a Utopian outcome, including the movement to eradicate eschatological dualism itself. In sum there is no cure for the human condition, other than realizing that there is no cure.

Well, I guess there is total eradication. Kind of drastic though.

[ArtVandelay]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

all you have to do is read too hot to see the envy

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

Well, I guess there is total eradication. Kind of drastic though.

That's what the Utopian movements become.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I don't think you have any understanding of the left or liberalism. In fact, that's my general critique of the right in this country. They seem to now believe the strawmen they have set up to attack liberals for the last several decades.

It is my belief that liberals want equality through radical egalitaranism and to promote equal social and economic outcomes.