Hagel on the Iraq War

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

There is an interesting thread of antisemitism on the left, sometimes even among leftist Jews.

There's also an interesting thread of Nazism on the right, sometimes even among non-Jewish neocon cheerleaders.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by gatorev12

What a despicable lie.

If you want evidence of what ethic cleansing done by the Nazis looks like, look up pictures of Auschwitz, Bergen, and the others.

The Israelis may not like the Palestinians, but they damn sure aren't starving them to death and/or murdering them by the tens of thousands each day.

To even equate the two is despicable, but that's typical of your posting style.

LOLOLOLOL!

It's only ethnic cleansing if it involves concentration camps?

LOLOLOLOL!

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Correction: We fight wars because it serves the interests of the ruling oligarchy and their banks and corporations. Liberation and prevention have absolutely nothing to do with it, either.

Don't take it from me, though. Here's a link to Smedley Butler's War is a Racket. Read and learn:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

Aren't these pretty much the same. I'm not as deep into this as you, but I do believe there is far to much power wielded by these entities. I don't deny that, at some point, the Rothchilds, etc. created this system with their own interests in mind. But at this point I just see it more as a machine than a roundtable of dastardly villians. And the machine must be fed. And the machine eats money.

Lastly, I have zero doubt that the top executives at Goldman, Chase, Exxon, Shell, etc. have more loyalty to their Corporations and their profits than they do to the United States, the Constitution, etc. Hell, they are so big - with deep, imbedded bureaucrasies - they might as well be countries.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by AmericaFirst

As I endorse the annihilation of the Zionist regime. No peace can be accomplished until they get thrown out of power.

I endourse the annihilation of the entire region, for what it's worth. Hate them all. Wish this country would figure out a way - stop using their oil - to just give them all our backs for eternity. Most worthless, unredeemable region, culture and people on the planet earth.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

Aren't these pretty much the same. I'm not as deep into this as you, but I do believe there is far to much power wielded by these entities. I don't deny that, at some point, the Rothchilds, etc. created this system with their own interests in mind. But at this point I just see it more as a machine than a roundtable of dastardly villians. And the machine must be fed. And the machine eats money.

Lastly, I have zero doubt that the top executives at Goldman, Chase, Exxon, Shell, etc. have more loyalty to their Corporations and their profits than they do to the United States, the Constitution, etc. Hell, they are so big - with deep, imbedded bureaucrasies - they might as well be countries.

Yes, the machine must be fed, but you also have to consider why the machine was created in the first place. It didn't just happen by accident. One doesn't build a battering ram without having the idea to knock a few doors down.

In other words, there's more than just a lust for profit at stake in war, there's hegemonic control as well.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

There's also an interesting thread of Nazism on the right, sometimes even among non-Jewish neocon cheerleaders.

He called me a Nazi. So much for my arguments!

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

He called me a Nazi. So much for my arguments!

I'm surprised he didn't use "LOLOLOL" repeatedly like the master internetz genius he is.

a credit to internet trolls the world over

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

He called me a Nazi. So much for my arguments!

Is that what you call 'em? I was thinking more along the lines of "meaningless platitudes":

"We fight wars because they serve 'our' interests!"

"We're over there fight tyranny!"

"We're liberating people!"

Not up to your usual, thoughtful standard.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Is that what you call 'em? I was thinking more along the lines of "meaningless platitudes":

"We fight wars because they serve 'our' interests!"

"We're over there fight tyranny!"

"We're liberating people!"

Not up to your usual, thoughtful standard.

Yep. That's what I call 'em.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Yes, the machine must be fed, but you also have to consider why the machine was created in the first place. It didn't just happen by accident. One doesn't build a battering ram without having the idea to knock a few doors down.

In other words, there's more than just a lust for profit at stake in war, there's hegemonic control as well.

So, who are these people? I think the system is more a prisoner of its own intertia than a handfull of Snerdly Whiplashes plotting the domination of the world. I don't doubt there are those who might like the idea of, say, a world government based on the current Chinese model, but it isn't as easy as throwing a switch or making some phone calls. There are still major obstacles in the way of folks like that. Goldman/Exxon could care less whether it's the US model or the Chinese model or something in between so long as the system continues to work for them. And they are well positioned to make sure it does either way.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

So, who are these people?

It's hard to know who the real power players are at any one time, as there are numerous ways to hide wealth and power behind trusts, tax-exempt foundations, front companies, and shell corporations, but this is a good start in understanding who's carrying out the agenda of the ruling oligarchs at the NGO/think tank/corporate level, though:

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/20...overnment.html

I think the system is more a prisoner of its own intertia than a handfull of Snerdly Whiplashes plotting the domination of the world. I don't doubt there are those who might like the idea of, say, a world government based on the current Chinese model, but it isn't as easy as throwing a switch or making some phone calls.

Nobody ever suggested it was easy to do away with national sovereignty in favor of world government, but it's still happening in incremental steps. And the agenda for global governance isn't a formal conspiracy, it's an ideological conspiracy. Internationalists simply don't believe in borders, national identities, and international competition amongst nation-states.

There are still major obstacles in the way of folks like that. Goldman/Exxon could care less whether it's the US model or the Chinese model or something in between so long as the system continues to work for them. And they are well positioned to make sure it does either way.

Yes, and the best way to make sure the system continues to work for the ruling class is take total global control of it via a supranational, unelected world government. It's too difficult to monopolize markets without first monopolizing government, and that is their goal, on a world scale.

[AmericaFirst]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

I endourse the annihilation of the entire region, for what it's worth. Hate them all. Wish this country would figure out a way - stop using their oil - to just give them all our backs for eternity. Most worthless, unredeemable region, culture and people on the planet earth.

We agree on that. The Middle East is no place for the United States, a country of many religions. Religion rules in the Middle East from a governing standpoint. We don't need to have even one base in that part of the world.

[vertigo0923]

Originally Posted by Row6

With vertigo, I second your post, and add that Hagel is driven by the same opinion.

i definitely agree that's probably the way Hagel sees it, being as he was enlisted, and that does carry a lot of weight with me. he understands, he really gets it.

[Row6]

Originally Posted by vertigo0923

i definitely agree that's probably the way Hagel sees it, being as he was enlisted, and that does carry a lot of weight with me. he understands, he really gets it.

And unlike his Neo-con critics like McCain and Graham, who sought his apologee for not being willing to sacrifice more troops in an effort to prove them right, he is able to face a mistake and learn from it.

[fredsanford]

Thank goodness the pubs in congress were able to point out what a dangerous lunatic they allowed to be part of their caucus for decades.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

He called me a Nazi. So much for my arguments!