SEC Player of the Year Discussion

[InstiGATOR1]

An interesting blog and twitter exchange. First Katz posts this:

Meanwhile, Ole Miss' Marshall Henderson, who scored 28 points in a win over Tennessee on Thursday, is averaging 18.9 points a game and may be the leader in the clubhouse for SEC player of the year, as the Rebels are in a tussle with Florida for the SEC regular-season title.

at the bottom of this column:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...hmond-heats-up

The Gasaway tweets a link to it having this conversation:

John Gasaway ‏@JohnGasaway
I like Marshall Henderson too, but there are 2 if not 3 Gators I'd rank above him for SEC POY.

Ricky Bishop ‏@TheRickyBishop
@JohnGasaway @espnandykatz I think he shot a few too many hurried 3's when rebels already had lead. Could have shot vols back into game.


12m John Gasaway ‏@JohnGasaway
@TheRickyBishop @ESPNAndyKatz Agree. Shooting just 32% on 3s in SEC but launching 11 (!) per game. Kennedy's on-board I guess, but, man.

and then Gasaway follows up with this tweet:

John Gasaway ‏@JohnGasaway
Can't explain why overlooking Florida for SEC POY has been systemic. One winner in almost 50 years (Chandler Parsons). Odd.

[gatorbogey]

took a long while for donovan to get coach of the year too

[maleko83]

Originally Posted by gatorbogey

took a long while for donovan to get coach of the year too

This, to me, is the much bigger oversight. Thinking back through the Donovan coached teams, there's never a team where one player has really stood out and had those spectacular numbers that would warrant POY consideration. Which is all the more support for Donovan being coach of the year at least 4 or 5 times by now. Really unbelievable. I mean, Kevin Stallings winning it in 2006-07? What a joke.

[REM08]

Its hard to even discuss this before first agreeing who the award should go to. Should it be the best player on the best team? The "most valuable"? - and how do you even determine this? Maybe the most productive/best numbers?

I dont' think there's a "right" way to do this, and think different voters do it differently. My thinking on this has always been simply the best player. If we were picking teams playground style (for a college game happening right now - not a future career/nba draft thing) and all SEC players were available, who would be picked first? Who's that one guy that is going to best impact your teams chances of winning. If the award is going to be called POY, then I think this is how it should be done. Some years this would be easy, others not. Also, I'd go with SEC stats, not season ones.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by REM08

Its hard to even discuss this before first agreeing who the award should go to. Should it be the best player on the best team? The "most valuable"? - and how do you even determine this? Maybe the most productive/best numbers?

I dont' think there's a "right" way to do this, and think different voters do it differently. My thinking on this has always been simply the best player. If we were picking teams playground style (for a college game happening right now - not a future career/nba draft thing) and all SEC players were available, who would be picked first? Who's that one guy that is going to best impact your teams chances of winning. If the award is going to be called POY, then I think this is how it should be done. Some years this would be easy, others not. Also, I'd go with SEC stats, not season ones.

This is sort of irrelevant to the point Gasaway was making. It is odd ex-post that given the number of:

1. UF championship or near championship teams

2. UF high draft picks dating at least back to Walk

that UF has been seemingly systematically ignored in this award.

[themistocles]

Good points REM.

Good points Insti.

To me, it also is the Donovan phenomenon that suggests bias rather than the POY, for the simple reason that Billy D's teams tend to "spread it around" whereas many teams (e.g. Ole Miss, Tex A&M, etc.) are very dependent on a specific player for performance.

However, going back to Walk, or even Keller does make it a rather interesting issue.

Personally, I think it reflects nothing other than jealousy regarding GatorAid.

[BEH]

Originally Posted by themistocles

Good points REM.

Good points Insti.

To me, it also is the Donovan phenomenon that suggests bias rather than the POY, for the simple reason that Billy D's teams tend to "spread it around" whereas many teams (e.g. Ole Miss, Tex A&M, etc.) are very dependent on a specific player for performance.

However, going back to Walk, or even Keller does make it a rather interesting issue.

Personally, I think it reflects nothing other than jealousy regarding GatorAid.

Are you really saying that Neal Walk was better than Pistol Pete or Dan Issel? Walk was good but he had some competition in the SEC. Walk did get Florida to it's first NIT, but he sure was not close to being the SEC POY, bias or no bias.

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by BEH

Are you really saying that Neal Walk was better than Pistol Pete or Dan Issel? Walk was good but he had some competition in the SEC. Walk did get Florida to it's first NIT, but he sure was not close to being the SEC POY, bias or no bias.

Walk averaged about 27 PPG and 20 RPG in his junior year at UF and slightly less as a senior. He was selected 2nd in the NBA draft behind Alcindor in 1969. Certainly Maravich was going to win POY's averaging what he did at LSU, but it is not wacky to argue that Walk deserved to be considered for POY while at UF in both his junior and senior years.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by BEH

Are you really saying that Neal Walk was better than Pistol Pete or Dan Issel? Walk was good but he had some competition in the SEC. Walk did get Florida to it's first NIT, but he sure was not close to being the SEC POY, bias or no bias.

If you want the best college player who is helping his team, I am less convinced by the Maravich argument. I think a case can be made for Walk over Issel.

As for the NIT, that his a cheap shot taking advantage of the younger people here who do not know that the second best team in each league went to the NIT in those days. I suspect you know that and should have done better in that case.

[GatorLurker]

Neal Walk was totally awesome, but Maravich was the GOAT in college hoops. It just sucked for him to be in the same league.

This year I might give serious consideration to N Noel as MVP. Just think about how terrible UK would be without his D.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by GatorLurker

Neal Walk was totally awesome, but Maravich was the GOAT in college hoops. It just sucked for him to be in the same league.

This year I might give serious consideration to N Noel as MVP. Just think about how terrible UK would be without his D.

Maravich scored a whole bunch of points. On the other hand when you go to college to play for your daddy so you can score a whole bunch of points, that is what you will do usually.

Would he have taken all the shots he did playing for a real college coach on a real college team? I wonder.

[GatorPlanet]

SEC POY is usually about stats, and BD's teams try to spread the ball around. We won't usually have the POY.

I got to watch Ole Miss last night for the first time. Very good team there. I have absolutely no problem with Henderson winning the POY. The guy can flat out play. I'm looking forward to Scottie guarding him.

[gator7_5]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

If you want the best college player who is helping his team, I am less convinced by the Maravich argument. I think a case can be made for Walk over Issel.

As for the NIT, that his a cheap shot taking advantage of the younger people here who do not know that the second best team in each league went to the NIT in those days. I suspect you know that and should have done better in that case.

That d+++head knew better, but he just can't help himself.

When I think of BEH, I picture Old Man Potter.

[GatorLurker]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Maravich scored a whole bunch of points. On the other hand when you go to college to play for your daddy so you can score a whole bunch of points, that is what you will do usually.

Would he have taken all the shots he did playing for a real college coach on a real college team? I wonder.

Daddy got the gig because of his son, not the other way around.

[ufgator4ever]

Who cares about great players. Give me great teams.

[jsc28]

If you want to score 25-30 a night, and shoot all the shots, best of luck to you. You may get some accolades, but you won't fit in here.

[BA69MA72]

Wasn't Walk a few years before Pete?

[gatorbogey]

Originally Posted by ufgator4ever

Who cares about great players. Give me great teams.

now we're talkin'!!

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by REM08

My thinking on this has always been simply the best player. If we were picking teams playground style (for a college game happening right now - not a future career/nba draft thing) and all SEC players were available, who would be picked first? Who's that one guy that is going to best impact your teams chances of winning. If the award is going to be called POY, then I think this is how it should be done. Some years this would be easy, others not.

That's how I view it. I have no problem with the concept that the best player in the league could be on the worst team in the league.

I haven't even seen Henderson play so I don't have much right to evaluate him, but I'm not always impressed by high-scoring/high-volume shooters.

Although I don't recall who won it during our championship years, I do think both Noah and Horford deserved strong consideration. I could see picking either of those guys first in a hypothetical SEC draft during those years.

[GothamGator]

Henderson is the "leader in the clubhouse"??? So, if he doesn't play another game this year he can win the award?

Here is a link to the conference-only stats. Very useful for this discussion. It's still very early.