Gator Country

**apkgator** · 01-24-2013, 09:20 PM

This has been the frustrating thing about the entire Butler tenure....these headscratching horrible losses. Just seems like it is a non stop one stepforward one step back.
And yes I know they are young and have some talent coming in. But they are always young because of so many transfers every year and they gain no continuity
No doubt they will rebound and get some quality wins, but making the tourney will be tougher now.

UFreak · 01-24-2013, 09:25 PM

It may be time ...

gatorbogey · 01-24-2013, 09:28 PM

can't go down 17, that's a deep hole. gotta convert the easy bunny shots too...and can't turn the ball over multiple times when you're trying to stage a comeback.

Gatorgal04 · 01-24-2013, 09:30 PM

Well they certainly didn't look like an 0-5 team tonight, and not because our defense was bad. They just couldn't miss.

G2MGA · 01-24-2013, 09:39 PM

If Ole Miss shot their season average % from 3, we would have won this game by double figures. Ifs and buts and all that...

The reality of this team that I kind of saw coming early in the season is that we have to play primarily zone and live or die by the opponents' 3-pt % because we don't have SEC-calibre speed on the perimeter and can't really defend dribble penetration at all.

crapgame44 · 01-24-2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GboroGator

We lose to the worst team in the league at home..Yep, this program is heading in the right direction. I don't want to hear about the injury excuses anymore. Ole Miss is not UK, UT, or USCe. The next 4 of 5 are on the road. Looks like Butler and co are headed towards the bottom of the standings again.

Boy, you could set your clock with posters like these. If this guy knew anything about the building process and the team that will be fielded next season he might have a different outlook. I guess he also doesn't count torn ACL's and stress fractures as legit injuries, whatever. Not to mention 7-8 freshman this season. Nobody predicted this current line up, especially with the injuries, to go much further then they went last season. This season has always been a set up one for next season. So tell me, how would the men be doing at this point with 7 freshman and a bunch of injuries? Think they would be 14-7 at this point. Butlers also not going anywhere with her contract extension and recruiting these last 2 years also.has been very good. Keep the faith.

number1 · 01-24-2013, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crapgame44

Boy, you could set your clock with posters like these. If this guy knew anything about the building process and the team that will be fielded next season he might have a different outlook. I guess he also doesn't count torn ACL's and stress fractures as legit injuries, whatever. Not to mention 7-8 freshman this season. Nobody predicted this current line up, especially with the injuries, to go much further then they went last season. This season has always been a set up one for next season. So tell me, how would the men be doing at this point with 7 freshman and a bunch of injuries? Think they would be 14-7 at this point. Butlers also not going anywhere with her contract extension and recruiting these last 2 years also.has been very good. Keep the faith.

1. The men actually have been battling a bunch of injuries this season.

2. I think what they are just upset with the fact that the team every season seems to play the exact same way. Lose some head-scratchers in the OOC, then play some of the top teams close and not pull out the win, then follow that up with losing to horrible teams in conference. I guess they are just fed up with the same ole pattern season after season. And I will point out that the same excuses have been used every season, youth and injuries.

crapgame44 · 01-24-2013, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1

1. The men actually have been battling a bunch of injuries this season.

2. I think what they are just upset with the fact that the team every season seems to play the exact same way. Lose some head-scratchers in the OOC, then play some of the top teams close and not pull out the win, then follow that up with losing to horrible teams in conference. I guess they are just fed up with the same ole pattern season after season. And I will point out that the same excuses have been used every season, youth and injuries.

But the difference is that these freshman are the best class UF has had in years or has ever had. Gotta give them some seasoning. And consider how strong Peoples, Bannister and Williams will be? Those three are probably the most raw talented on the team, Williams especially. Then factor in Dimaite who has had the most prep time of anyone and who can actually play some offense as well for a 5. MacIntyre really just not getting it done so far in the SEC, but maybe next season will be a breakout one for her like George and Bonds have had as upper classman. And factor in a potential JUCO transfer. Keep the faith.

jhsgator · 01-25-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crapgame44

Boy, you could set your clock with posters like these. If this guy knew anything about the building process and the team that will be fielded next season he might have a different outlook. I guess he also doesn't count torn ACL's and stress fractures as legit injuries, whatever. Not to mention 7-8 freshman this season. Nobody predicted this current line up, especially with the injuries, to go much further then they went last season. This season has always been a set up one for next season. So tell me, how would the men be doing at this point with 7 freshman and a bunch of injuries? Think they would be 14-7 at this point. Butlers also not going anywhere with her contract extension and recruiting these last 2 years also.has been very good. Keep the faith.

This is Butler's 6th season here. Any shortcomings talent wise on this roster is on her.

**oragator1** · 01-25-2013, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhsgator

This is Butler's 6th season here. Any shortcomings talent wise on this roster is on her.

She took over a program that had little talent, no recent success, no history of sustained success, little fan support in a conference of giants. It isn't your normal rebuilding project. If you look at her last 2 recruiting classes, she looks to have finally got it where she wants it long term. Next she needs to start converting those to wins with the talent as it comes in, that will be her final arbiter but this is the sandwich year.

gatorbogey · 01-25-2013, 07:31 AM

i agree, this is a longer rebuilding project. i think foley recognizes that. and i think that once we do get to a certain level, the resources and the ever- building hoops fanbase - that donovan has built here at UF - will help allow the gator women's bb program really take flight.

we can't drop games like last night though. i think everyone recognizes that. but even BD's team has dropped some headscatchers, usually when we're off and/or when the other team is hitting shots at an uncommon frequency. then "everyone" questions the team's heart and/or coaching.

**stingbb** · 01-25-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crapgame44

Boy, you could set your clock with posters like these. If this guy knew anything about the building process and the team that will be fielded next season he might have a different outlook. I guess he also doesn't count torn ACL's and stress fractures as legit injuries, whatever. Not to mention 7-8 freshman this season. Nobody predicted this current line up, especially with the injuries, to go much further then they went last season. This season has always been a set up one for next season. So tell me, how would the men be doing at this point with 7 freshman and a bunch of injuries? Think they would be 14-7 at this point. Butlers also not going anywhere with her contract extension and recruiting these last 2 years also.has been very good. Keep the faith.

This is Butler's sixth season and the roster make up is her doing, and can't be used as an excuse. Actually, how the roster got so out of balance is because of Butler's average recruiting, and the fact she has been forced to bring in a bunch of transfers to fill the holes.

This is Butler's sixth season and this year will be the fourth time UF has missed the tournament. Keep in mind also the SEC is much weaker now than it was 10-15 years ago (when it was far and away the best conference in the country) and it should be much easier to build. Actually, you can say the program is about at the same level as when Peck was here but that the results are better because of a much less competitive conference.

I'm not saying Butler should be fired but I am saying the excuses are getting old. I've said for the last couple of years that until Butler recruits Florida better (for some reason, it seems she is not respected among the high school coaches in the state), this program will not take the next step. Hopefully, the transfers work out- unfortunately, the one we have playing this year is not much of a contributor so we'll take a wait and see on the others.

GboroGator · 01-25-2013, 08:43 AM

So when we rely upon this great freshman class again next season, and things don't go well..we'll hear the same youth w/o time to gel excuse. Why did so many of Butler's early classes transfer out? I believe one of them has started for Delaware the past 2 seasons at point guard.

Check the rebuilding process the coach at UK has done in the same time period.. And UK has had no history in the women's game..USCe in the same time frame has passed UF by..SC is not exactly a hotbed of basketball either..I'm not expecting Final 4's..but making the NCAA year in and year out..being in the top 5 of the SEC isn't too much to ask.. Qualifying for the Women's NIT is nothing to hang your hat on.

**apkgator** · 01-25-2013, 09:13 AM

I think both sides of this argument make very valid points. No doubt the womens hoops job is the toughest HC job at UF,but that almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
O'Leary starts a lacrosse program from scratch in a state that has little homegrown talent or support, and reaches a number one ranking in her third year. She had injuries and youth but still great success. Ultimately, at year 6 I only buy the "youth" argument if a team is coming off some success with a group that just graduated and that is not the case here....we just keep churning thru transfers each season with limited development or improvement. Last year was certainly the highlight, but losses like last night are a reminder of how far there still is to go.
Stingb is correct that the SEC is not what it used to be either....UT, Vandy, UGA, Aub, LSU would all be top 10 teams at the same time a few years back. Carol Ross had a much tougher road IMO. Add in the fact that Florida HS basketball has gotten much much better and should provide an easier path to talent(unfortunately we don't sign many of those players), look at FSU and Miami that have both built better programs during the last few years.

This year is salvageable, but next year is a must for considerable improvement. I would think that is the make or break season.

gatorbogey · 01-25-2013, 09:54 AM

O'Leary, though, was a top name in lacrosse women's coaching. right? who was looking to expand the sport too.

don't think we could duplicate that for women's hoops. or could we? doubt we could attact a name that wants to retire to florida and build the program 'from scratch'. wouldn't necessarily be expanding the sport, though. so it would be someone that was a program builder. or liked that sort of challenge.

we've tried getting the coach that had won the nat'l title and she couldn't do 'it' here. so we're doing a different way - the incremental way, old fashion way of building things one 'brick' at a time. you can dump millions into it - go after the best coach in the nation, but i think that would be just throwing away money. and does it really matter in the grand scheme of things to instantly have a top 'final four' women's hoops team? i mean, do the benefits offset the costs? and do your really build a strong live-long fans that way?

not surprised butler struggled early w/ in state talent or florida h.s. coaches - she had to earn their respect, imo. much like BD did. but, probably has that now, or it is growing, right?

the recent classes are good. getting transfers into the program now instead of out of it. so i like the vector we're on. don't u?

**apkgator** · 01-25-2013, 10:12 AM

Bogey,
Yes, O'leary was an established coach, but not sure how that matters. It's what the coach does here that is relevant, as you pointed out with the success of Peck.
I agree that UF needs to get the right up and comer and build the program incrementally on a solid foundation...ala Donovan. But the question becomes is that happening in year 6? Most agree there is young talent and more on the way. But there are still questions, puzzling losses, and a program struggling to make the big dance well into the Butler tenure.
So when you say you like the "vector" we are on , I would answer with a definite maybe. Headed for the NIT in year 6 , bottom half of the SEC, behind in state rivals is bad. But next year des look considerably brighter. But looking brighter has to translate into tangible results.

tommyuf21 · 01-25-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apkgator

So when you say you like the "vector" we are on , I would answer with a definite maybe. Headed for the NIT in year 6 , bottom half of the SEC, behind in state rivals is bad. But next year des look considerably brighter. But looking brighter has to translate into tangible results.

Dumping this coach and losing Williams in the process will mean a restart and another 4-6 year rebuilding job.

There are times when you have to stick with someone and see it through, even if its taking "longer" than you expect.

Some of you would be treating this job like an elite program going through coaches every 3-4 years and seeing miserable results.

crapgame44 · 01-25-2013, 10:58 AM

[quote=GboroGator;6363992]So when we rely upon this great freshman class again next season, and things don't go well..we'll hear the same youth w/o time to gel excuse. Why did so many of Butler's early classes transfer out? I believe one of them has started for Delaware the past 2 seasons at point guard.

Gborogtor, I guess the only thing to tell you is good luck with your frustration level this year. Just don't let it eat you up. Pretty much the rest of us are taking the longer term look cause thats the reality of the situation with what we have coming next season. And the last time I looked we have had 2 HIGH quality transfers in (Peoples and Bannister) and none out this year. A third if you count McIntyre who still has a season left to show us something. And don't lose perspective on what its like to be a freshman in any sport. This season will be the ultimate prep time for them. Its un-disputed their talent level ( ie Sydney Moss, Ms Kentucky Basketball for example). Nothing personal man, glad you are onboard with the program. If you weren't you'd wouldn't even bother to post on the women's team.

crapgame44 · 01-25-2013, 11:13 AM

"This year is salvageable, but next year is a must for considerable improvement. I would think that is the make or break season.[/quote]"

APKgator, I think we are all in agreement to an extent. But if we go deeper in the tourny then we did last season Foley wont make any changes and it wouldn't make sense too. Not to mention hitting the re-set button with the transfers out

**apkgator** · 01-25-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crapgame44

"This year is salvageable, but next year is a must for considerable improvement. I would think that is the make or break season.

"

APKgator, I think we are all in agreement to an extent. But if we go deeper in the tourny then we did last season Foley wont make any changes and it wouldn't make sense too.[/quote]

I don't even think deeper into the tourney is necessary for the season to be a success. I would look at the season as a whole and not worry so much if they get a tough NCAA draw.....but I would think making the NCAA next year is a must