How can Conservatives, especially Middle/Upper Class Whites, still love this country?

[g8orbill]

well it sure as hell won't get reduced by a guvment take over

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by OrlandoG8tr

Well like many I watched the inauguration yesterday (even though it was more like a coronation for a king), and just as I had started getting over the election of Barack Obama yesterday brought back all of the raw emotion, all of the anger, all of the sadness, all of the despair that I experienced in the days after his victory in November. It really got me thinking, why should I even stay in this country? Why should any middle or upper class white male, white female, or white family (yes I am making this racial, but it's not what you think it is) stay in this country any longer? This is a philosophical question in nature, not a political question.

Let me start by taking my family, those who I hold dearest to my heart. Those who I would do anything for, including sacrificing my own life. They are hated, ever single one of them, for who they are. Barack Obama and other liberal organizations have made sure that the majority of the nation hates my family. I will break it down for all of you, my mom and dad grew up dirt poor but are now very wealthy. My mom has been a stay at home mom for most of her life and my dad, from what I know, makes about $275,000 a year (after bonuses). In the current culture of this country, that makes them hated individuals. My dad would be hated because he is one of those "ultra rich" people who stole from poor people and runs a business that he built, but of course as Obama would say, "you didn't build that." Funny, I never saw the government helping my dad, and any roads the government provided for my dad to transport the goods his company makes was partially paid for by his own taxes! My dad would also be hated by most liberals because he owns a gun and has clearly told both my sister and I that "if anyone dare tries to enter my house and threaten us, they will die." My mom would be hated by the feminist groups because she represents everything they hate. She put her kids above her career, she accepted the male as the head of the household and primary breadwinner, and she embraced the traditional female role.

Now, lets go on and look at my sister and her family. My sister and my brother in law live the American dream as much as you can live it in these days and times. They married young, had 2 kids, live in the suburbs with a white picket fence (well not picket but a white fence), and are actively involved in their kids school and the homeowners association. Now of course it would be argued that because they didn't come from broken homes, that they had it easier than others and that they didn't really build that life for themselves. True they might have had it easier, but my brother in law got laid off just life a lot of others during the 2008-2010 recession and was out of work for awhile. He is back on his feet now and doing very well, but I know it took a toll on all of them. My brother in law would be hated though by the atheists and feminists in this country, mainly because he is deeply religious and against abortion. He would also be hated by most liberals because he now makes six figures. My sister would be hated because, like my mom, she is a stay at home mom. She worked as a teacher until they had their first child, at which point she put the well being of their child over her career. The feminists would have wanted that child in government daycare at 5 or 6 months, but my sister embraces a traditional female role, and that is staying at home with the kids, raising them, and doing the housework since her husband works 55 - 65 hours a week. My sister is hated for that.

Now lets conclude with my own situation. Technically I should probably be celebrated by the left. I do not make a lot of money in relation to the rest of my family, I am not married, I do not have kids, I am at least somewhat socially liberal, and while I am religious I am probably the least religious out of all of my family. But lets not be too quick to judge, I am hated because I believe the government has no business dealing with marriage. I believe that gay and straight couples should have the same right and protections, but that it should legally be a civil union. The government should not legally deal with marriage at all, marriage should remain a sacrament in the church. Now if a gay couple can find a church that will marry them, that's fine, but that's where it should be. The atheists because of these views hate me. I also believe that abortion should be illegal except in the case of rape or incest. Now atheists and feminists hate me. I also believe in the second amendment. I believe that we do need to crack down on who can buy guns, I believe any gun purchase should not happen until a criminal background check is done, and I believe assault riffles should be banned. But other than that, I believe people should be able to buy guns, including semi-automatic and automatic weapons. I believe in people having concealed weapons permits and being able to defend themselves. With that said, not the atheists, feminists, and liberals can hate me.

So here's my question, why should I stay in this country? For the first time in my life I am not proud to be an American. I might be a U.S. citizen, but I am not an American. This country has abandoned me, my family, and others like me. I look at our government and there is no one who I feel truly represents me. What makes me even more sick is that I look at my fellow citizens. My fellow citizens hate me, they wish I would leave or just die. Why you ask, because I have traditional values, because my family would be considered "insanely wealthy" by many, because we believe in individual rights and do not believe that big government is the answer. It's not the government I've lost faith in, I lost faith in them long ago and the inauguration of Barack Obama just solidified that. I've lost faith in the American people, because Americans now want to punish success, they want to drive out religion, they want to drive out individualism, they hate women like my mom and sister who would put the family unit above their careers, they hate everything about us. I hear Americans talk about how they wish they could burn down the houses of the rich, how they wish religion would be banned all together, how the rich do not pay their fair share (my dad pays more in taxes than I make in a year, is that not enough for you liberals? what is the fair share? who has the right to determine that? is 100% enough?), how business entrepreneurs didn't really create that business, it's everything. People like me are the ones discriminated against when it comes to jobs, because we don't add any diversity credit to an employer. People like me and my family are hated because we believe immigrants should come here LEGALLY and that ILLEGAL immigrants and their children (who should be children of their parents country, not the US) should be sent back to their home country and allowed to then apply to live here. I am sick of it all.

I honestly do not understand how any family like me (religious, conservative, white, middle/upper class) could still love this country? How do you love a country that now hates everything about you and wishes you were one of those who were aborted? I know that not only do I no longer love this country, I hate it. It's a good thing that there isn't a flag nearby, I would probably spit on it at this point. Why shouldn't I, the majority of the citizens who represent this country now spit on me!

I would leave but sadly my family still wants to stay in this country. Nothing I have said and could say would get them to leave. As much as I would love to leave I can't be that far away from them, they mean too much for me. Besides, if other citizens decide families like mine shouldn't be allowed to live, I need to be there to protect them as much as I possibly can. I can tell you this though, when I attend football games in the Swamp next year, it will be a different me. I will not stand up and say the Pledge of Allegiance, I will not sing the National Anthem, and I will not respect the Flag of a country that hates everything about everyone I hold dear. I will not do in the Swamp or any sporting or public event, and I definitely won't cheer for any US teams in international competitions. During those times I will quietly be messing with my iphone, and I pity the person who tries to give me a hard time about not respecting the traditions of this country, because they will get everything you just heard in this message.

Your thoughts? And please, someone change my mind, someone convince me that this country doesn't hate me and that I should still love it. I would be interested to hear it.

I think that could be one of the whiniest things ever posted here. Which is saying something.
If you really dislike this country so much, grow a pair and leave. But I'm guessing you won't.

[fairfaxgator]

"During those times I will quietly be messing with my iphone..."

iphones made by Chinese...good one...

I think if you dont stand during the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance at the Swamp watching our beloved Gators or anywhere else for that matter, then you may just get your A$$ kicked and I may just have to watch...

- signed Center (left) Fairfaxgator...

Also, please send me the chain email you revised to make it YOUR life...

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by CalSFGator

I would generally agree with you, except it's not quite as much the overstatement (the "war on women" is, as that is an idiotic phrase). Whereas the Pub party actually caters these days to a political subsector that includes righties carrying God Hates Fags signs, and panders to religious leaders, such as Fallwell, Dobson, Robertson, etc., that clearly do hate gays. Romney clearly doesn't hate poor people, he just can't understand them, as his statements have made pretty clear, and the war on women is a crude overstatement of the Pub's decision not to court the swing female vote, at least from a policy point of view.

On the other hand, the left and centrist democrats like Obama, clearly love white males. If you ask Jersey all the corruption in the world comes from overpaid fat white lawyers. The democratic party in Congress is still vastly majority older white males, all those LA douches the right hates are loaded with self-satisfied white males. Obama is a wild corporatist that has been very good to Wall Street, made up, lest you haven't noticed, primarily of white males.

So, you have a point on the hyperbole, the difference is at least the ones you pointed out are tied to at least a shred of reality.

Agree with you in principle, the funny thing is the branding by the Dem party has been amazing. Ex: Obama who essentially has live quite the special life himself, went to the private schools, private colleges, worked as an atty, then senator, then Pres. But somehow he plays the I know your plight...Exactly what menial job has he ever worked?

As far as the Pubs "not catering to women", not sure what they are to do, pimp out to every group/demographic there is? I think the thought of standing on principle is better than catering to each group but the messaging is poor. Self reliance, limited Gov, more constitutional closeness.

Not sure that the Pub party as a whole caters to the wacko religous right, I just think they are never going to align themselves with the Dems.

[tegator80]

Well, the OP was rather laborious to read but I hope you got something off your chest. My take is that the past great empires followed a similar path - creeping arrogance - that led to an ultimate breakdown. I can tell you what I have said to my child, who is 21: don't let our living here get in your way of your own life direction. That was the story of millions of people immigrating to the US. The reverse is also a plausible scenario. But these things happen much slower than what we think they should, and I expect that the "American Way" will continue for quite some time.

But yes, eventually all of the arrogance is going to drive our society down to third world status. That is unless we decide to blow up the world because China shows up to get their money back and we tell them "make us."

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by tegator80

Well, the OP was rather laborious to read but I hope you got something off your chest. My take is that the past great empires followed a similar path - creeping arrogance - that led to an ultimate breakdown. I can tell you what I have said to my child, who is 21: don't let our living here get in your way of your own life direction. That was the story of millions of people immigrating to the US. The reverse is also a plausible scenario. But these things happen much slower than what we think they should, and I expect that the "American Way" will continue for quite some time.

But yes, eventually all of the arrogance is going to drive our society down to third world status. That is unless we decide to blow up the world because China shows up to get their money back and we tell them "make us."

Your concern is creeping arrogance. The OP was all about hate. 'They hate this ... they hate that ....' I found it childish and ridiculous. And I don't know if it has anything to do with the creeping arrogance that you see.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Your concern is creeping arrogance. The OP was all about hate. 'They hate this ... they hate that ....' I found it childish and ridiculous. And I don't know if it has anything to do with the creeping arrogance that you see.

Look to the occupy crowd, plenty of hate there directed at what the OP alludes too.
Envy becomes hate when properly fomented, Karl Marx, Hitler, Mao knew that well.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

Look to the occupy crowd, plenty of hate there directed at what the OP alludes too.
Envy becomes hate when properly fomented, Karl Marx, Hitler, Mao knew that well.

The occupy wall street crowd signifies all of America now, huh? What that group thinks, America thinks. Is that it?

[108]

and for the record, the OWS movement doesn't hate wealth or success, what they hate is the rigged system

[DeanMeadGator]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

You should leave. Take 5 people along that think like you do.

I'm glad Obama's second term brings you the same pain that Bush's second term brought me.

I didn't want to live in Bush's America, either. But I knew better days would be ahead.

I fought for my country in 'Nam, and I would do so again. I am an American - not a liberal or conservative when it comes to loving and believing in America and its freedoms.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. No one is compelled to stay. Iran is nice this time of the year.

[T3goalie]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Because they've been brainwashed to. That's the honest truth. Our system of government and corporate media propaganda is so finely tuned and cradle-to-grave comprehensive that it would make even Joseph Goebbels blush.

Functionally speaking, most Americans are just mindless zombies.

1) Goebbels would be blown away by the EU as well.

2) There is No need to insult Zombies.

[g8orbill]

I am very proud of my heritage

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

I am very proud of my heritage

Wrong thread

[T3goalie]

Originally Posted by gregthegator

I only know ONE white person who will give you an honest FULL day of work that's under 30 years of age...

By the way...I'm white...and an employer...

I am a white employer also and this is an easy problem to solve. 1) If you hire a teenager make sure they are an IB student. Not AP, Not Honors, but IB. They are organized and must be driven to do well in IB. 2) If hiring college grads or professionals, Never, ever, ever ever, hire anyone,of any race, who did not put themselves through school. Those on the mom and dad $$ plan by in large have no concept of the value of money or how to work. They know how to be subsidized and have shown that they are not "hungry". Those who went to school on student loans without working only know how to get in debt. 3) Always hire the legal immigrant when you can. I don't care if he is white, black, Asian, an islander or Indian... They appreciate the opportunity that the USA represents because they have seen the hell hole that represents most of the world. 4) Never hire anyone that has pedigree but no proven "work" skills. The worst hire i ever made was hiring an Ivy league honors grad as an associate lawyer. The kid had no idea how to hustle. He did not make it 90 days. 5) Common sense is uncommon. hire kids with street smarts.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by T3goalie

I am a white employer also and this is an easy problem to solve. 1) If you hire a teenager make sure they are an IB student. Not AP, Not Honors, but IB. They are organized and must be driven to do well in IB. 2) If hiring college grads or professionals, Never, ever, ever ever, hire anyone,of any race, who did not put themselves through school. Those on the mom and dad $$ plan by in large have no concept of the value of money or how to work. They know how to be subsidized and have shown that they are not "hungry". Those who went to school on student loans without working only know how to get in debt. 3) Always hire the legal immigrant when you can. I don't care if he is white, black, Asian, an islander or Indian... They appreciate the opportunity that the USA represents because they have seen the hell hole that represents most of the world. 4) Never hire anyone that has pedigree but no proven "work" skills. The worst hire i ever made was hiring an Ivy league honors grad as an associate lawyer. The kid had no idea how to hustle. He did not make it 90 days. 5) Common sense is uncommon. hire kids with street smarts.

and yet we've some conservatives attacking IB

[wgbgator]

You know who else like to rant about his grievances with society? Hitler.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Your concern is creeping arrogance. The OP was all about hate. 'They hate this ... they hate that ....' I found it childish and ridiculous. And I don't know if it has anything to do with the creeping arrogance that you see.

I saw his diatribe as a sign of despair and he was looking for some reason to move away from the ledge (so to speak). I was merely trying to get him so see that this behavior isn't really different than what has transpired throughout history. Hate is a very powerful tool for giving people a focus for their anger - Scapegoats - and not on what the real ills are. The Christians during the Roman rule and the Armenians during the end of the Ottoman empire are good examples. The rich are probably the best ones to single out: they MUST be cheating to get more than us. I just find it humorous, if it weren't so destructive, that a rich person is likely to throw those inferences out about some other rich person and their minions actually believe it. Edward Kennedy cared about the underprivileged? REALLY!?!

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by rivergator

The occupy wall street crowd signifies all of America now, huh? What that group thinks, America thinks. Is that it?

No thank God not, but plenty loved the sentiment. See Dem party and the spender in chief.

[Swampmaster]

high tax, giveaway liberals will be running the country for years---the entitlement culture, very difficult to change once that ball gets rolling.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by 108

and for the record, the OWS movement doesn't hate wealth or success, what they hate is the rigged system

Did you get that from their web site?

The main thing I saw was the demonstrating against "evil rich CEO's, and evil rich corporations"