Diabetes Weight-Loss Study Ends Early With Surprising Result

[Dreamliner]

Saw this when it came out. And interestingly, it accords with the experience of a client I worked with a little over a year ago. She was a very heavy, Type II diabetic who had survived a heart attack. Her doctor read her the riot act and basically ordered her to lose weight.

I received a letter from her doctor directing me to supervise a 1,200 calorie diet and to encourage increased activity. So, I helped my client to configure an eating plan that would have her operating within her calorie allowance and had her on a walking program. I also worked with a registered dietician whose chief recommendation was to have my client eating a half-cup of yogurt before bedtime.

Results: client lost in excess of 10% of her bodyweight in short order. Over a period of 6-8 weeks her daily blood sugar ratings dropped from 400-500 (kid you not) to between 80-120. Her A1C dropped from above 13 to below 10 during that time.

She and I discontinued our working relationship shortly thereafter, but I continued to check on her periodically, at which times she'd enthusiastically report that she was maintaining her weight-loss, within a few pounds, and was walking several miles a day.

Her doctor and dietician were ecstatic. And by every measure, my client was a stunning success story ... until she had another heart attack.

She's fine now. Oh, the study:

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2012/niddk-19.htm

[ATL_Gator]

Glad she is fine.

A couple of thoughts....

Does she have a family history of cardiovascular disease? That is also a semi-rhetorical question. Just because she can answer that question as a "NO" to the best of her knowledge doesn't me that the absolute answer is NO. The history could have been there without people realizing it. If the answer is "yes"... genetics are funny like that, and they can't be beat.

Had she always maintained a "healthy weight" and not gotten very heavy, with Type 2 Diabetes in the first place.. would she have had the first heart attack to begin with? (i.e. did she do the first heart attack to herself)

After the first heart attack, had she maintained the obesity, with all "current" associated problems, and possibly new ones on top of that... then BAM, second heart attack... Is she dead? Could the body in the "compromised" state recover from the stress of a second attack? Or did her "improved capability" aid her surviving attack 2.

In regards to the second attack happening anyway.... Can cardiovascular disease be "undone", or is it like bending metal. Once metal is bent so far as to permanently deform it, it can not be undone. So, once you experience the first heart attack, you are ALWAYS at risk for a second?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

Glad she is fine.

A couple of thoughts....

Does she have a family history of cardiovascular disease? That is also a semi-rhetorical question. Just because she can answer that question as a "NO" to the best of her knowledge doesn't me that the absolute answer is NO. The history could have been there without people realizing it. If the answer is "yes"... genetics are funny like that, and they can't be beat.

Had she always maintained a "healthy weight" and not gotten very heavy, with Type 2 Diabetes in the first place.. would she have had the first heart attack to begin with? (i.e. did she do the first heart attack to herself)

After the first heart attack, had she maintained the obesity, with all "current" associated problems, and possibly new ones on top of that... then BAM, second heart attack... Is she dead? Could the body in the "compromised" state recover from the stress of a second attack? Or did her "improved capability" aid her surviving attack 2.

In regards to the second attack happening anyway.... Can cardiovascular disease be "undone", or is it like bending metal. Once metal is bent so far as to permanently deform it, it can not be undone. So, once you experience the first heart attack, you are ALWAYS at risk for a second?

Funny you should ask as she had a family history of both heart disease and diabetes, so you could have predicted both.

She was always overweight as an adult, but she perceived that her pronounced obesity happened fairly precipitously. And evidence is emerging that diabetes and obesity go hand-in-hand, as if they shared a common genetic marker.

In fact, she told me her doctor had her frustrated and hopelessly confused by simultaneously ordering her to lose weight and also warning her that, owing to her diabetes, it would be nearly impossible to lose weight. Maybe he was half-right ?

The badgering to lose weight seems increasingly odd in light of studies that show that obese diabetics seem to survive their diabetes and heart attacks more readily than thin diabetics and heart attack victims do. This is precisely the reason researchers coined the term 'Obesity Paradox' awhile back. In my mind, how much longer should obesity be characterized as a risk when, more and more it seems like obesity (save the upper ranges) appears to be a benefit ?

Where should my client go from here ? In a sense, she's not unlike me with my hypertension. Eating normally, being active, managing stress, etc., can hardly hurt. But in her case, since her mother died in her 50's and father in his 60's, I somehow doubt that she's going to wind up a female Methuselah.

[Gatorrick22]

Is type II diabetes curable?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

Is type II diabetes curable?

I may be wrong but I don't think so. There was news recently about very low calorie diets effectively reversing diabetes. But in addition to the study I referenced, subsequent studies appeared to show that symptoms eventually return.

I don't think it's fatalism to acknowledge that many of us have diseases that can't be cured but can perhaps be controlled. I have two of them, asthma and hypertension.

My growing suspicion is that conscious weight-loss may not be the answer for anything. I'm not even sure that it's helpful for the morbidly obese.

To date, I'm aware of no clinical study that shows weight-loss increasing longevity. On the other hand, there is evidence that weight-loss decreases longevity.

I suspect that, end the end, we'd all be healthier and happier if we stopped trying to lose weight.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I may be wrong but I don't think so. There was news recently about very low calorie diets effectively reversing diabetes. But in addition to the study I referenced, subsequent studies appeared to show that symptoms eventually return.

I don't think it's fatalism to acknowledge that many of us have diseases that can't be cured but can perhaps be controlled. I have two of them, asthma and hypertension.

My growing suspicion is that conscious weight-loss may not be the answer for anything. I'm not even sure that it's helpful for the morbidly obese.

To date, I'm aware of no clinical study that shows weight-loss increasing longevity. On the other hand, there is evidence that weight-loss decreases longevity.

I suspect that, end the end, we'd all be healthier and happier if we stopped trying to lose weight.

That's interesting stuff Dream. I'm currently pursuing a high amino acid diet to see if I can get some of the natural benefits, and that might help my body release some of my own natural made HG. This coupled with a regimented workout/weights and cardio routine for better health.

I've always been in decent shape but lately I've had this little tire in the mid section that just wont go away.

I'll let you know about how it's going.

Also have you heard anything about deer antler velvet? I'm going to try some soon.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

That's interesting stuff Dream. I'm currently pursuing a high amino acid diet to see if I can get some of the natural benefits, and that might help my body release some of my own natural made HG. This coupled with a regimented workout/weights and cardio routine for better health.

I've always been in decent shape but lately I've had this little tire in the mid section that just wont go away.

I'll let you know about how it's going.

Also have you heard anything about deer antler velvet? I'm going to try some soon.

I'm afraid I'm not a supplements/extracts/herbs guy. Just a food guy.

Are you diabetic or afraid you're going to be one ?

[LeafUF]

Rick if you want to release GH I recommend focusing your training on heavy squats and heavy deadlifts. And when you say you are on a high amino acid diet do you just mean high protein or are you supplementing your diet with aminos?

Dont use IGF-1 please. Its snake oil.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I'm afraid I'm not a supplements/extracts/herbs guy. Just a food guy.



Are you diabetic or afraid you're going to be one ?

No, I'm lucky I'm not. I'm going to hit the road jack (RUN)...................again.

I've always been real slim and I'm looking thicker than I like lately. But I also used to run 5 miles a day, so that's probably where my cardio leads me to.

But, you really need to read up on the deer antler velvet extract supplement. The IGF-1 derived from it will surprise you, because it come from the deer antler velvet but it's also exact chemical compound that your liver transforms your GH into.

[Dreamliner]

Sorry, I completely skated across the training and HG part. I was focusing on diabetes. Leaf mentioned deadlifts and squats. There is a widely-touted study showing that multiple sets of deadlifts and squats, done for 10-15 reps, are the best for natural HG production. But it's only percentage points different and hardly anyone trains big lifts for high reps.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

Rick if you want to release GH I recommend focusing your training on heavy squats and heavy deadlifts. And when you say you are on a high amino acid diet do you just mean high protein or are you supplementing your diet with aminos?

Dont use IGF-1 please. Its snake oil.

Both protein and free-forms like Arginine, Ornithine, BCAA and a few others.

I'm glad you mentioned that (squats) Leaf, because that's one of my favorite workouts in the gym. Squatting literally uses all of my muscle groups and it does increase my ........libido ten fold.

As far as IGF-1 goes, here's some interesting reading concerning it and it's real affect on the human body. The IGF-1 sprays are a joke, but the extract is not the same thing.

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.c...c2831-0306.pdf

[LeafUF]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

Both protein and free-forms like Arginine, Ornithine, BCAA and a few others.

I'm glad you mentioned that Leaf, because that's one of my favorite workouts in the gym. Squatting literally uses all of my muscle groups and it does increase my ........libido ten fold.

As far as IGF-1 goes, here's some interesting reading concerning it and it's real affect on the human body. The IGF-1 sprays are a joke, but the extract is not the same thing.

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.c...c2831-0306.pdf

So do you have a GH deficiency that has been diagnosed by a doctor and will be treated with IGF-1 and GH injections? Just reading the last page of that report would have me very skeptical of its benefits and potential side effects.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Sorry, I completely skated across the training and HG part. I was focusing on diabetes. Leaf mentioned deadlifts and squats. There is a widely-touted study showing that multiple sets of deadlifts and squats, done for 10-15 reps, are the best for natural HG production. But it's only percentage points different and hardly anyone trains big lifts for high reps.

Actually, I was just telling Leaf that that squats are still my favorite workout, by far, for my legs. I still do them and I do feel great after just a few weeks of workouts.

[Dreamliner]

I've experimented with a few supplements, have watched others experiment with many more, read copious studies, and am convinced that good, old-fashioned mechanical stress, AKA, strength training, is the best thing for muscle.

I feel like I'm letting every guy down when I say that.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

So do you have a GH deficiency that has been diagnosed by a doctor and will be treated with IGF-1 and GH injections? Just reading the last page of that report would have me very skeptical of its benefits and potential side effects.

I'm not going to inject them. I'm going to see what all the fuss with deer antler velvet extract is all about. I'll let you guys know if it helps reduce joint pains I get from time to time.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I've experimented with a few supplements, have watched others experiment with many more, read copious studies, and am convinced that good, old-fashioned mechanical stress, AKA, strength training, is the best thing for muscle.

I feel like I'm letting every guy down when I say that.

Not me, that's how I've been doing it all my life, but I have supplemented with simple free-form amino acids from time to time.

All they (amino acids) are is the basic building blocks to protein that require no help from your liver to digest.

[Dreamliner]

Sure, but you get them in your food. Look, I don't tell people not to take supplements For one thing, that approach never seems to work. Telling someone not to take something seems to have the opposite effect.

But other than creatine, most supplements don't really do what they say they're supposed to do. Take whey protein, for instance. Yes, it does induce protein synthesis. No, there is no hard evidence that protein synthesis actually promotes muscle growth long-term.

Remember that Placebo Effect is a powerful phenomenon. My wife where's those stupid copper bracelets. She acknowledges that it's probably bullshit, but swears that she feels better when she wears them.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Sure, but you get them in your food. Look, I don't tell people not to take supplements For one thing, that approach never seems to work. Telling someone not to take something seems to have the opposite effect.

But other than creatine, most supplements don't really do what they say they're supposed to do. Take whey protein, for instance. Yes, it does induce protein synthesis. No, there is no hard evidence that protein synthesis actually promotes muscle growth long-term.

Remember that Placebo Effect is a powerful phenomenon. My wife where's those stupid copper bracelets. She acknowledges that it's probably bullshit, but swears that she feels better when she wears them.

Those damn copper bracelets.

I do take in some creatine, but not that much and not the monohydrate crap. I do beaf protein and it works. I've worked out without aminos and I've worked out with them, and I can tell you that the size and strength difference is not something that a placebo affect can explain.

It's as real as the difference between a skinny dude that is lean but skinny, seemingly okay, versus a dude that's built and muscular.

I buy only the highest quality American made amino acids...... and they do work.

[LeafUF]

Monohydrate is the only one that isn't crap. Where do you get your supplement info from?

http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/

[Dreamliner]

No, nobody's noticeably bigger because of supplements. And this is especially true for the skinny guy.