Percent that want Roe V. Wade overturned continuing to decline

[WESGATORS]

Gay marriage is significantly different as it is about labeling and benefits that are legally attached to the labels. It is not at all about what people are free to do.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I disagree with that, myami, primarily because one of the fundamental roles of the federal government is to ensure inalienable and civil rights. Those cannot be violated, even by the states.

Now, I don't happen to believe that abortion is an inalienable right, but it's been framed such that a woman's right to do what she pleases with her body is an inalienable right. While I disagree with that, the argument can be made.

Gay marriage is one that would be even harder to argue against as a civil right. Leaving these solely at the discretion of the states actually sets a worse precedent.

[wygator]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

Yes, but it is quite lucrative for the non-profits that continue to fan the flames on an almost daily basis. Don't ya love politics. An issue that exists soley for the purpose of political division and fundraising. It really is a non-issue anyway. Never going to be overturned - or any legislation close to that - in our lifetimes.


I almost feel sorry for the hard-core Pro-Life voter these days: Just pawns being played by the system.

I only feel sorry for all the babies that lost their lives.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

CH, I can easily answer that question no, the law allows for it now so no they are NOT breaking the current law.

I never asked you if it was illegal in current law (clearly, it isn't). I'm asking whether YOU consider it 1st Degree Murder and whether YOU feel it should be prosecuted as such?

So, in your eyes/opinion, is it 1st Degree Murder or something less?

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

Have them watch an ultrasound at 10 weeks an they will see differently

So Bill, I ask you again. Murder or something less than that?

[Dreamliner]

In the modern mind 'law = moral.'

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

So Bill, I ask you again. Murder or something less than that?

Go back and read CHF- i answered your question right after you asked it

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Gay marriage is significantly different as it is about labeling and benefits that are legally attached to the labels. It is not at all about what people are free to do.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Whereas it SHOULD be simply about the bolded instead of an attempt by both sides to use the word "marriage" as a weapon against the other. The two sides here are like 4yo's arguing over a toy. Remove toy, solve problem.

So, IMO, if the Feds do anything it would be ban the word "marriage" from those documents (take away the toy) and reduce the argument to it's essential, non-emotional, basic facts: The granting of certain rights with respect to probate, power of attorney in case of incapacitation and tax status. PERIOD. The government should not be in the business of defining words, especially when said definitions serve only to weaponize the word for opposing political viewpoints.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by wygator

I only feel sorry for all the babies that lost their lives.

Good for you. But if this issue moves you any increment in any direction politically, then you are a pawn. I have seen nearly ZERO change with respect to this issue and the availability of abortions in 40 years and I don't expect to see any in the next 40. But I do expect to see it routinely used in primaries, generals and for what it seems to do best, gin up fundraising.

What's really sad is the way they play on the real emotions of people like yourselves, when they have no real intention of doing anything on this issue.

[myamiG8R]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

I disagree with that, myami, primarily because one of the fundamental roles of the federal government is to ensure inalienable and civil rights.

exactly where is this "fundamental role" of the federal government found in the constitution? larry tribe didn't teach that to me...

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by g8orbill

no I don't CHF- I do believe it is murder and I do believe it is wrong-I also know some women who in their younger days had an abortion who have a hard time dealing with the guilt they now feel- I would not charge them or the Dr with capital murder-and I would allow for an abortion from a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest and in instances where it would kill the mother to carry the baby or if they found that the child was either dead in the womb or was mentally deformed

First, my bad. I didn't catch this.

Second, your position is inconsistent. Answer me this.

1. Why is it okay to kill the fetus in the case of rape or incest?
2. Why wouldn't it be 1st Degree Murder? It is by definition 1st Degree (premeditated and executed, by appointment no less).
3. Why is it okay to kill the fetus if it's mentally deformed (I assume you mean disabled)?

Lastly, is it a life or something less than a life. Because, in my world, logic dictates that it's either a life or not. Either murder or not. There is no "it's kind of a life," or "it's a life if the mother approves of the sire or the means of insemination."

You can't have it both ways. The political enterprises would have you believe so, but that's because they see the issue as more of a revenue stream than a real issue to be resolved. This is why resolution of the issue is never part of the political narrative.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

Good for you. But if this issue moves you any increment in any direction politically, then you are a pawn. I have seen nearly ZERO change with respect to this issue and the availability of abortions in 40 years and I don't expect to see any in the next 40. But I do expect to see it routinely used in primaries, generals and for what it seems to do best, gin up fundraising.

What's really sad is the way they play on the real emotions of people like yourselves, when they have no real intention of doing anything on this issue.

I agree with you about the lobbying but this issue will eat at your soul if you actually see what is done to these babies. We as a society will be judged one day for this...

I have no idea who gives money to these lobbyists and it makes no sense to me. But I do get emotional and want to cry when I see the gruesome acts we as a society have deemed acceptable.

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

I agree with you about the lobbying but this issue will eat at your soul if you actually see what is done to these babies. We as a society will be judged one day for this...

I have no idea who gives money to these lobbyists and it makes no sense to me. But I do get emotional and want to cry when I see the gruesome acts we as a society have deemed acceptable.

I do not see it the same way personally, but I truely respect your opinion and feelings on this matter. This isn't a game, it's a real issue that touches people deeply on both sides. Which is why I'd like to see, at the very least, an attempt at creating some resolution on the issue. It may be one of those things where nobody is truely happy, but that the majority can settle on a timeline for the procedure that we can all live with.

Unfortunately, what we will get is the usual political handball.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

I do not see it the same way personally, but I truely respect your opinion and feelings on this matter. This isn't a game, it's a real issue that touches people deeply on both sides. Which is why I'd like to see, at the very least, an attempt at creating some resolution on the issue. It may be one of those things where nobody is truely happy, but that the majority can settle on a timeline for the procedure that we can all live with.

Unfortunately, what we will get is the usual political handball.

I agree 100%...

[JerseyGator01]

Most people don't even know what Roe v. Wade decided and most have never even heard of its sister case, Doe v. Bolton. Even the pollster, Pew Research, butchered the definition in a recent poll. The legit polls are those that ask about rape, incest and life of the mother which well over 90% of abortions don't involve. 70%+ of people are against abortion except for those reasons. Unfortunately, most pollsters are either too lazy, politically motivated or flat out dishonest to not frame the question this way.

It's like asking if one is for climate change: a very vague and stupid question which pollsters will probably start using soon if history is any indicator regarding other issues.

[g8orbill]

CHF- by mentally deformed I am talking about anencephaly

[Gatoragman]

Ch, murder by definition is the premeditated taking of another life, so yes I would say this is murder, but as long as the law states that it isn't murder then prosecution of any party involved will not happen.
If at some point it became illegal then yes they should be prosecuted.
This is very emotional issue and I don't know how to deal with the case of incest or rape.
I do know though that if the greatest Gator's mom believed in the right to abort we would never had known Tim Tebow!

[RealGatorFan]

This poll isn't surprising. As society has slowly taken religion out of the state, something invariably must takes its place - immorality. I have a lawyer friend who is looking at this case and might drop a huge bombshell on Roe vs Wade. My guess is if a criminal kills a pregnant woman's unborn child, he can't be charged for that death but only the woman's. It's called involuntary abortion and since abortion is legal, no murder charges can be used if the baby isn't alive. This case is going to get real ugly either way.

[WESGATORS]

For those against the legality of abortion:

- is Plan B (morning after pill) ok?
- is RU-486 ok? (technically, a woman is not pregnant until implantation occurs; for those who say the woman "made a choice" is she not still making one by one last effort to say "not here")
- how about efforts to induce a miscarriage naturally? (presumably only for those who are appalled by the procedures involved in some of the more graphic displays of abortions)

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[wygator]

Originally Posted by CHFG8R

Good for you. But if this issue moves you any increment in any direction politically, then you are a pawn. I have seen nearly ZERO change with respect to this issue and the availability of abortions in 40 years and I don't expect to see any in the next 40. But I do expect to see it routinely used in primaries, generals and for what it seems to do best, gin up fundraising.

What's really sad is the way they play on the real emotions of people like yourselves, when they have no real intention of doing anything on this issue.

I'm a big boy...don't worry about people playing my emotions. I make my own decisions.

My conclusion is that human life begins at conception and deserves protection.